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claudicici
AndresEscobar
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    Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying, 9 MA teens charged

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    Post by AndresEscobar Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:35 pm

    Nine teens charged in bullying that led to suicide

    This caused my brain to explode today and I don't want to get banned from Websleuths for discussing it.

    Of note, a 17-year old and an 18-year old male are being charged with statutory rape. Statutory rape is punishable up to life in prison in Mass.

    The age of consent in Mass. is 16 years old.

    Most states have what is called Romeo and Juliet laws preventing people from being charged with statutory rape when one party is above the age of consent and the other party is below, but their ages are within a certain age number of years (usually around 3 years). These laws were developed to stop high school students that are dating from being charged with statutory rape. For example, a High School senior that is 18 and a high school freshman that is 15. Massachusetts apparently does not have such a law. As such, these two boys will face life in prison.
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    Post by claudicici Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:39 pm

    ...bullying is a horrible thing...I feel very bad for the girl
    ...but to charge 9 kids as ADULTS facing serious charges is ridiculous.The adults,the school officials were aware this was going on.Why aren't there classes that teach kids about this stuff?
    ...as for statutory rape those laws are ridiculous as well...teenage girls have older boyfriends...and meanwhile the real pedophiles and rapists get away and the statutory rape guys have to register as sex offenders just as they do.
    I don't understand...
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    Post by ziggy Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:17 am

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/24/the_untouchable_mean_girls/

    This is such a tragic case. It just gets me. I wish the DA could go after the girls more than those guys. I don't know if they had anything to do with the bullying - I guess if they did I think they should be dealt with harshly.

    What about the school? Is there civil action that can be taken? I would certainly think they had a special duty to her as a student in their care.
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    Post by Kay Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:37 pm

    That just breaks my heart. Sad

    And to know that some of it went on in front of a school staff member who did NOTHING . . . didn't even report it until after the suicide . . . hope he/she has trouble sleeping at night.
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    Post by Kay Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:43 pm

    claudicici wrote:...bullying is a horrible thing...I feel very bad for the girl
    ...but to charge 9 kids as ADULTS facing serious charges is ridiculous.The adults,the school officials were aware this was going on.Why aren't there classes that teach kids about this stuff?
    ...as for statutory rape those laws are ridiculous as well...teenage girls have older boyfriends...and meanwhile the real pedophiles and rapists get away and the statutory rape guys have to register as sex offenders just as they do.
    I don't understand...

    It doesn't matter if there are classes, kids bully any way. Florida has a state law that the public school HAS TO stop bullying. So they tell the kids, "You stop that now." And the bully stops until they're out of sight, and do it again. The teachers hands are tied because there are so many pieces-of-crap parents out there nowadays. The kids today know just how far the schools can go with punishment.

    My solution for bullying -- if your kid won't stop picking on my kid, I'm just going to come over and kick your ass. Smile ("You" in general, not you-you.)

    I'm glad these kids were charged. Let them face the consequences of their actions. That is something that is so rare nowadays.
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    Post by Kay Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:45 pm

    It is my understanding that these two boys pressured this girl into having sex . . . have sex with us and the bullying will stop. She did and it continued. It was just something I read, so it may not be accurate.

    It may also be that the DA just threw everything she could at them.
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    Post by claudicici Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:31 pm

    ....I'm not talking about classes that teach simply to "say no",we all know they don't work about drugs or anything else,I'm talking about actual therapists getting to the bottom of why kids feel the way they do and encourage open communication and dealing with those emotions...
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    Post by Kay Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:39 pm

    claudicici wrote:....I'm not talking about classes that teach simply to "say no",we all know they don't work about drugs or anything else,I'm talking about actual therapists getting to the bottom of why kids feel the way they do and encourage open communication and dealing with those emotions...

    I'm sure that has been tried. I think so many kids are just plain mean. And again, I think a lot of them do not have good parental support. Or the parents are always making excuses or it is the typical, "Not my child . . . " reaction. Not many kids get "in trouble" anymore when they do something wrong.
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:51 am

    Kay wrote:It is my understanding that these two boys pressured this girl into having sex . . . have sex with us and the bullying will stop. She did and it continued. It was just something I read, so it may not be accurate.

    It may also be that the DA just threw everything she could at them.

    Yeah, that sounds like something someone would drum up for supporting the Statutory rape charge. Demonize these boys. However, everything I've read has said that bullying somehow was related to her sexual history with these boys. Regardless, "pressuring" someone into having sex is not illegal. And yes, the DA threw everything she could. She's obviously trying to make a name for herself with out regard to the lives of these other kids.

    This is a tragedy. An absolute tragedy. And, there may or may not be a statutory scheme in place in MA to deal with bullying and stalking of this nature. ETA: and if there is, let them face trial and be convicted under that statute. However, the tragedy is going to be worse because of this out of control DA. These boys will be on sex offender lists for the rest of their lives, if they get out of jail. They will never be able to have careers. They will face shame, hatred, and anger every time they move to a neighborhood. It will be extremely tough for them to ever find someone to marry, and then be accepted by their spouses family.

    However, bulling happens to everyone. Every girl at some point is called a "slut" by classmates. Every guy is called "gay" or other pejoratives.

    I do not think that the bullying is the one single thing that lead to this girl's suicide. That's not to sound cold or cruel. I just think there's a lot more going on here than simply bullying. Are you going to take every teenage suicide, determine whether this person was bullied at some point in their lives and then charge whomever bullied them?
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    Post by Kay Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:26 am

    AndresEsCROWbar wrote: Regardless, "pressuring" someone into having sex is not illegal.
    But apparently having sex with a 15-year old is illegal. For what it is worth, I agree with you about the statutory rape charges when it is a boyfriend/girlfriend type situation and the kids are close in age.

    I've been reading about this girl, her suicide and the bullying ever since it happened. I did not get the impression that this was just average bullying. This was 24/7. This girl was assaulted numerous times by these kids, i.e., having a full soda can thrown at her head while she is walking down the hallway. Unfortunately, no ADULT did what they should have done while this girl was alive. I'm hoping to see some of these adults have to face consequences. If a staff member stood by and did nothing while this girl was bullied in school, when it happened right in front of the staff member, that staff member should be fired.
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:57 am

    Kay wrote:
    AndresEsCROWbar wrote: Regardless, "pressuring" someone into having sex is not illegal.
    But apparently having sex with a 15-year old is illegal. For what it is worth, I agree with you about the statutory rape charges when it is a boyfriend/girlfriend type situation and the kids are close in age.

    I've been reading about this girl, her suicide and the bullying ever since it happened. I did not get the impression that this was just average bullying. This was 24/7. This girl was assaulted numerous times by these kids, i.e., having a full soda can thrown at her head while she is walking down the hallway. Unfortunately, no ADULT did what they should have done while this girl was alive. I'm hoping to see some of these adults have to face consequences. If a staff member stood by and did nothing while this girl was bullied in school, when it happened right in front of the staff member, that staff member should be fired.

    In MA a 17 year old having sex with a 15 year old is apparently illegal. In, say, Texas (yes, Texas), these young men would have the affirmative defense of a Romeo and Juliet law. And they would not go to jail. Regardless, we can agree that this is overstepping by the DA and an error by the MA legislature. This is where most of my outrage is directed with regards to this case.

    My questions:

    What consequences should the bullies face? 6 months in jail? Community service? Whether or not it's average or above average bullying, I don't know. I've only heard that they threw a can of red bull at her and called her an "Irish Slut". While this is bad, this doesn't shock me with regards to bullying. I'm not belittling the harshness of their actions. I'm just saying that if I was told a high school student was bullied I would assume they were called some nasty names and maybe some mild assault/battery.

    What consequences should the adults face? To what extent should inaction be punished?
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    Post by Kay Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:01 pm

    AndresEsCROWbar wrote:
    Kay wrote:
    AndresEsCROWbar wrote: Regardless, "pressuring" someone into having sex is not illegal.
    But apparently having sex with a 15-year old is illegal. For what it is worth, I agree with you about the statutory rape charges when it is a boyfriend/girlfriend type situation and the kids are close in age.

    I've been reading about this girl, her suicide and the bullying ever since it happened. I did not get the impression that this was just average bullying. This was 24/7. This girl was assaulted numerous times by these kids, i.e., having a full soda can thrown at her head while she is walking down the hallway. Unfortunately, no ADULT did what they should have done while this girl was alive. I'm hoping to see some of these adults have to face consequences. If a staff member stood by and did nothing while this girl was bullied in school, when it happened right in front of the staff member, that staff member should be fired.

    In MA a 17 year old having sex with a 15 year old is apparently illegal. In, say, Texas (yes, Texas), these young men would have the affirmative defense of a Romeo and Juliet law. And they would not go to jail. Regardless, we can agree that this is overstepping by the DA and an error by the MA legislature. This is where most of my outrage is directed with regards to this case.

    My questions:

    What consequences should the bullies face? 6 months in jail? Community service? Whether or not it's average or above average bullying, I don't know. I've only heard that they threw a can of red bull at her and called her an "Irish Slut". While this is bad, this doesn't shock me with regards to bullying. I'm not belittling the harshness of their actions. I'm just saying that if I was told a high school student was bullied I would assume they were called some nasty names and maybe some mild assault/battery.

    What consequences should the adults face? To what extent should inaction be punished?

    But it is not an occasional instance of being called a slut or having something thrown at her. It was 24/7, non-stop since the girl arrived in that town. It was at school, at home, on the internet, etc. etc. That is not your "average" bullying. I don't know either what consequences these kids should face. I think having their actions exposed and the publicity about their actions is going to be one consequence. Maybe they'll be made to feel just like this girl did -- scorn from your peers, constant shame and humiliation and dreading to face each day. In my opinion, a lot of community service and probation would be adequate consequences for the bullying charges.

    As far as consequences for inaction . . . I don't know. In this particular case, the girl's mother went to the school two times to get something done to stop the bullying. Nothing was done. School officials knew about it, knew it was continuing, witnessed it first hand, and still nothing was done. A good bit of this bullying happened on school grounds, during school hours. Part of their job is protecting the students. They did not have to "care" but they needed to do their job. In other professions, lack of job performance would result in termination of employment. They had a duty to this girl, and they failed. Not because she committed suicide, but because they did not stop this bad behavior by the bullies.
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    Post by ziggy Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:10 pm

    I would definitely sue the teachers and the school. Schools needs to AT LEAST put those bullies on notice, send notices to their parents etc.and then follow up with disciplinary actions if needed. It should be just like an employement file - you get written up, you get a warning, you get written up again you face discipline, third time that's it - you are out. Schools have no tolerance for drugs and kids get expelled for Advil - this is just ridiculous that there was no action taken.

    Parents ought to have to do the community work with them. I say make them pick up garbage along the road like they do the drunk drivers in CA - everyone can take pictures and laugh at them. Nothing wrong with a little dose of the old medicine. Bring back some shame to people - geez they seem to have none - even defending their mouthy rotten kids. Arg.
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    Post by Kay Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:17 pm

    Crow Fo Shizzle wrote:I would definitely sue the teachers and the school. Schools needs to AT LEAST put those bullies on notice, send notices to their parents etc.and then follow up with disciplinary actions if needed. It should be just like an employement file - you get written up, you get a warning, you get written up again you face discipline, third time that's it - you are out. Schools have no tolerance for drugs and kids get expelled for Advil - this is just ridiculous that there was no action taken.

    Parents ought to have to do the community work with them. I say make them pick up garbage along the road like they do the drunk drivers in CA - everyone can take pictures and laugh at them. Nothing wrong with a little dose of the old medicine. Bring back some shame to people - geez they seem to have none - even defending their mouthy rotten kids. Arg.

    They need to give more power to the local schools. Here, you can suspend someone for an Advil. But other behavior problems -- no. If a student is bullied, he is not supposed to react. If a student is hit, he cannot hit back. He has to find a teacher to "tell." If that means he gets his face beat until a teacher can be found, so be it. If he hits back, he will get the exact same punishment as the bully. So you have good kids who do not want to stick up for themselves because they do not want to get punished. Isn't that insane?
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:10 pm

    Crow Fo Shizzle wrote:I would definitely sue the teachers and the school. Schools needs to AT LEAST put those bullies on notice, send notices to their parents etc.and then follow up with disciplinary actions if needed. It should be just like an employement file - you get written up, you get a warning, you get written up again you face discipline, third time that's it - you are out. Schools have no tolerance for drugs and kids get expelled for Advil - this is just ridiculous that there was no action taken.

    Parents ought to have to do the community work with them. I say make them pick up garbage along the road like they do the drunk drivers in CA - everyone can take pictures and laugh at them. Nothing wrong with a little dose of the old medicine. Bring back some shame to people - geez they seem to have none - even defending their mouthy rotten kids. Arg.

    Woah, sue the teachers? So, the teachers should be individually liable? What power do the teachers have, despite maybe issuing detentions?
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:19 pm

    Kay wrote:
    But it is not an occasional instance of being called a slut or having something thrown at her. It was 24/7, non-stop since the girl arrived in that town. It was at school, at home, on the internet, etc. etc. That is not your "average" bullying. I don't know either what consequences these kids should face. I think having their actions exposed and the publicity about their actions is going to be one consequence. Maybe they'll be made to feel just like this girl did -- scorn from your peers, constant shame and humiliation and dreading to face each day. In my opinion, a lot of community service and probation would be adequate consequences for the bullying charges.

    The internet causes an interesting issue with bullying as it allows for a more constant stream of bullying. Regardless, I remain unconvinced that being called names, even 24/7, rises to a level of bullying and humiliation that is beyond what most bullied kids experience. Perhaps there is more. Maybe there are details yet to be released that are abhorrent and do justify criminal prosecution. I guess we shall see.

    I think your proposed punishment is pretty fair.

    Kay wrote:
    As far as consequences for inaction . . . I don't know. In this particular case, the girl's mother went to the school two times to get something done to stop the bullying. Nothing was done. School officials knew about it, knew it was continuing, witnessed it first hand, and still nothing was done. A good bit of this bullying happened on school grounds, during school hours. Part of their job is protecting the students. They did not have to "care" but they needed to do their job. In other professions, lack of job performance would result in termination of employment. They had a duty to this girl, and they failed. Not because she committed suicide, but because they did not stop this bad behavior by the bullies.

    How could they stop the bad behavior? Surely, punishment via detention can only do so much. What about when it's online -- where a big chunk of it apparently occurred? Should the school punish children for their actions online, even if it didn't occur on school property?
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:22 pm

    Kay wrote:
    They need to give more power to the local schools. Here, you can suspend someone for an Advil. But other behavior problems -- no. If a student is bullied, he is not supposed to react. If a student is hit, he cannot hit back. He has to find a teacher to "tell." If that means he gets his face beat until a teacher can be found, so be it. If he hits back, he will get the exact same punishment as the bully. So you have good kids who do not want to stick up for themselves because they do not want to get punished. Isn't that insane?

    What power should be given to the schools? School suspend students for a variety of ridiculous things. Advil, having swiss army knives on key chains, even things done off school property.

    Do you think it's good policy to allow hit students to hit back? How do you determine who was the instigator?
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    Post by Kay Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:34 pm

    AndresEsCROWbar wrote:
    Kay wrote:
    They need to give more power to the local schools. Here, you can suspend someone for an Advil. But other behavior problems -- no. If a student is bullied, he is not supposed to react. If a student is hit, he cannot hit back. He has to find a teacher to "tell." If that means he gets his face beat until a teacher can be found, so be it. If he hits back, he will get the exact same punishment as the bully. So you have good kids who do not want to stick up for themselves because they do not want to get punished. Isn't that insane?

    What power should be given to the schools? School suspend students for a variety of ridiculous things. Advil, having swiss army knives on key chains, even things done off school property.

    Do you think it's good policy to allow hit students to hit back? How do you determine who was the instigator?

    The should allow the schools to kick kids out of school when they are constant trouble. If the school cannot control the child, and there is no cooperation from the parents, and the bad child's behavior is a constant distraction to other kids who are trying to learn -- they should be able to kick them out of school. They cannot do that now.

    It is often clear who is the instigator because a lot of the fights stem from bullying. It is no secret to anyone who the bully is. There are always tons of witnesses around. So yes, I think a child ought to be allowed to defend themselves. My son would be punished by me if he ever raised his hand to another; however, I encourage him to hit back when he has been hit. It is usually a good lesson for the bully as well. Often that is the only reason someone is bullying someone else -- cause they can get away with it. Bullies are usually cowards -- they only pick on kids that don't fight back.

    Part of shaping kids is to get them ready for real life. How many of us would stand by when we are physically assaulted by another, without trying to defend ourselves? Would you?
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    Post by Kay Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:43 pm

    AndresEsCROWbar wrote:
    Kay wrote:
    But it is not an occasional instance of being called a slut or having something thrown at her. It was 24/7, non-stop since the girl arrived in that town. It was at school, at home, on the internet, etc. etc. That is not your "average" bullying. I don't know either what consequences these kids should face. I think having their actions exposed and the publicity about their actions is going to be one consequence. Maybe they'll be made to feel just like this girl did -- scorn from your peers, constant shame and humiliation and dreading to face each day. In my opinion, a lot of community service and probation would be adequate consequences for the bullying charges.

    The internet causes an interesting issue with bullying as it allows for a more constant stream of bullying. Regardless, I remain unconvinced that being called names, even 24/7, rises to a level of bullying and humiliation that is beyond what most bullied kids experience. Perhaps there is more. Maybe there are details yet to be released that are abhorrent and do justify criminal prosecution. I guess we shall see.

    I think your proposed punishment is pretty fair.

    Kay wrote:
    As far as consequences for inaction . . . I don't know. In this particular case, the girl's mother went to the school two times to get something done to stop the bullying. Nothing was done. School officials knew about it, knew it was continuing, witnessed it first hand, and still nothing was done. A good bit of this bullying happened on school grounds, during school hours. Part of their job is protecting the students. They did not have to "care" but they needed to do their job. In other professions, lack of job performance would result in termination of employment. They had a duty to this girl, and they failed. Not because she committed suicide, but because they did not stop this bad behavior by the bullies.

    How could they stop the bad behavior? Surely, punishment via detention can only do so much. What about when it's online -- where a big chunk of it apparently occurred? Should the school punish children for their actions online, even if it didn't occur on school property?

    The school should have punished the bullies for what they were doing at school only. If the behavior was not corrected, they should have suspended the kids. If it continued they should have expelled the bullies. If the behavior rose to the level of threats of physical violence and when they actually committed battery, then they should have gotten law enforcement involved because those actions are criminal. What they should not have done was stand by and do nothing, chalking it up to just normal kids behavior or watch this girl get bullied in the school library, and done nothing.

    The whole "online bullying" I have a problem with, cause the solution is to turn off your computer. You cannot threaten me via the internet if I don't log on.
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    Post by Kay Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:46 pm

    AndresEsCROWbar wrote:
    Crow Fo Shizzle wrote:I would definitely sue the teachers and the school. Schools needs to AT LEAST put those bullies on notice, send notices to their parents etc.and then follow up with disciplinary actions if needed. It should be just like an employement file - you get written up, you get a warning, you get written up again you face discipline, third time that's it - you are out. Schools have no tolerance for drugs and kids get expelled for Advil - this is just ridiculous that there was no action taken.

    Parents ought to have to do the community work with them. I say make them pick up garbage along the road like they do the drunk drivers in CA - everyone can take pictures and laugh at them. Nothing wrong with a little dose of the old medicine. Bring back some shame to people - geez they seem to have none - even defending their mouthy rotten kids. Arg.

    Woah, sue the teachers? So, the teachers should be individually liable? What power do the teachers have, despite maybe issuing detentions?

    What do you think should happen to a teacher who stands by and watches a student get bullied? Do you think that teacher is performing their job?
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:09 pm

    Kay wrote:

    The should allow the schools to kick kids out of school when they are constant trouble. If the school cannot control the child, and there is no cooperation from the parents, and the bad child's behavior is a constant distraction to other kids who are trying to learn -- they should be able to kick them out of school. They cannot do that now.

    It is often clear who is the instigator because a lot of the fights stem from bullying. It is no secret to anyone who the bully is. There are always tons of witnesses around. So yes, I think a child ought to be allowed to defend themselves. My son would be punished by me if he ever raised his hand to another; however, I encourage him to hit back when he has been hit. It is usually a good lesson for the bully as well. Often that is the only reason someone is bullying someone else -- cause they can get away with it. Bullies are usually cowards -- they only pick on kids that don't fight back.

    Part of shaping kids is to get them ready for real life. How many of us would stand by when we are physically assaulted by another, without trying to defend ourselves? Would you?

    Good points. I guess the issue might be schools have too much power in certain instances and not enough in other probably more important instances. Would I fight someone who was attempting to fight me? Depends on the circumstance.
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:21 pm

    Kay wrote:
    AndresEsCROWbar wrote:
    Crow Fo Shizzle wrote:I would definitely sue the teachers and the school. Schools needs to AT LEAST put those bullies on notice, send notices to their parents etc.and then follow up with disciplinary actions if needed. It should be just like an employement file - you get written up, you get a warning, you get written up again you face discipline, third time that's it - you are out. Schools have no tolerance for drugs and kids get expelled for Advil - this is just ridiculous that there was no action taken.

    Parents ought to have to do the community work with them. I say make them pick up garbage along the road like they do the drunk drivers in CA - everyone can take pictures and laugh at them. Nothing wrong with a little dose of the old medicine. Bring back some shame to people - geez they seem to have none - even defending their mouthy rotten kids. Arg.

    Woah, sue the teachers? So, the teachers should be individually liable? What power do the teachers have, despite maybe issuing detentions?

    What do you think should happen to a teacher who stands by and watches a student get bullied? Do you think that teacher is performing their job?

    I don't know of many (any?) teachers that would ignore a bullied student. And I know a lot of teachers. I also know teachers (at least in Illinois) go through a lot of training in dealing with these issues.

    My question is, though, beyond telling them to stop, beyond issuing a detention, beyond sending them to the dean, what else should they do? Call the parents? What do you think a bully's parent would say? Have you ever tried dealing with a problem child's parents? They're unpleasant at best. They also tend to sue if their child is expelled.

    Teachers don't have a lot of disciplinary power. I don't see why they should be held personally liable (ETA: when I say "personally liable" I mean monetarily liable, as in pay money damages) for a bullying issue when discipline is mostly out of their hands.

    ETA: to answer your question: In your scenario, where a teacher does nothing where violent bullying is occurring in front of them, I think that the board of education should look at the specific facts of the case and decide whether the teacher's inaction is so unjustifiable that it warrants disciplinary action.
    AndresEscobar
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    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:31 pm

    My point here is: the failure to address this problem falls more on the administrations shoulders, specifically the administrator responsible for discipline and his superiors, than the teachers.
    Kay
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    Post by Kay Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:10 pm

    AndresEsCROWbar wrote:
    Kay wrote:
    AndresEsCROWbar wrote:
    Crow Fo Shizzle wrote:I would definitely sue the teachers and the school. Schools needs to AT LEAST put those bullies on notice, send notices to their parents etc.and then follow up with disciplinary actions if needed. It should be just like an employement file - you get written up, you get a warning, you get written up again you face discipline, third time that's it - you are out. Schools have no tolerance for drugs and kids get expelled for Advil - this is just ridiculous that there was no action taken.

    Parents ought to have to do the community work with them. I say make them pick up garbage along the road like they do the drunk drivers in CA - everyone can take pictures and laugh at them. Nothing wrong with a little dose of the old medicine. Bring back some shame to people - geez they seem to have none - even defending their mouthy rotten kids. Arg.

    Woah, sue the teachers? So, the teachers should be individually liable? What power do the teachers have, despite maybe issuing detentions?

    What do you think should happen to a teacher who stands by and watches a student get bullied? Do you think that teacher is performing their job?

    I don't know of many (any?) teachers that would ignore a bullied student. And I know a lot of teachers. I also know teachers (at least in Illinois) go through a lot of training in dealing with these issues.

    My question is, though, beyond telling them to stop, beyond issuing a detention, beyond sending them to the dean, what else should they do? Call the parents? What do you think a bully's parent would say? Have you ever tried dealing with a problem child's parents? They're unpleasant at best. They also tend to sue if their child is expelled.

    Teachers don't have a lot of disciplinary power. I don't see why they should be held personally liable (ETA: when I say "personally liable" I mean monetarily liable, as in pay money damages) for a bullying issue when discipline is mostly out of their hands.

    ETA: to answer your question: In your scenario, where a teacher does nothing where violent bullying is occurring in front of them, I think that the board of education should look at the specific facts of the case and decide whether the teacher's inaction is so unjustifiable that it warrants disciplinary action.

    I agree with what you say in this post. The fault lies with administration. All the teachers can do is turn the bully over to administration. However, there was one specific instance, on the day she committed suicide, when she was bullied in the presence of a staff teacher (presumably a teacher) in school. That staff member did absolutely, just stood there and watched it happened. It was reported AFTER the girl's suicide. That staff member should be disciplined. I do not blame that staff member for all the bullying, but for that one instance. That one instance is enough for me to discipline that staff member. How could it not warrant disciplinary action?
    AndresEscobar
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    Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying, 9 MA teens charged Empty Re: Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying, 9 MA teens charged

    Post by AndresEscobar Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:57 pm

    Kay wrote:
    I agree with what you say in this post. The fault lies with administration. All the teachers can do is turn the bully over to administration. However, there was one specific instance, on the day she committed suicide, when she was bullied in the presence of a staff teacher (presumably a teacher) in school. That staff member did absolutely, just stood there and watched it happened. It was reported AFTER the girl's suicide. That staff member should be disciplined. I do not blame that staff member for all the bullying, but for that one instance. That one instance is enough for me to discipline that staff member. How could it not warrant disciplinary action?

    I guess it depends on the facts, right? If this staff member didn't say anything, didn't do anything, then yes, she is at best negligent. And there will certainly be disciplinary action.

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