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    THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

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    claudicici

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    THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:17 am

    ....data dump only.No discussions please....
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:23 am

    I think Sam was totally in the background at the festival - The girls were very popular and you can see why, they were good looking young girls on a road trip ready to freaking party down.

    Sam just simmered. He went back to VA so he could fly out of that airport on his ticket back to CA. I'm sure the ride home was BRUTAL. Then, after they get back to the Kelly house, there he is, all alone, spent all this money on a girl who told him he was her only and everything, and **poof** it's gone and he's kind of a laughing stock. Then he finds texts and realizes ppl are talking sh8t behind his back and he just figures he's had it and it's time for someone to pay for effing with him.

    Could be when buying all the merch. he just figured he'd head back to VA and try to make the best of it until he went hom to CA, but the ride home and subsequent events triggered his alter ego.
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:18 am

    ...the whole thing seems to me an abusive relationship on fast forward...boy meets girl...they fall "in love"..boy gets jealous and possessive....boy kills girl and everyone close to her.......but considering his mom according to sarah was cheating on the dad a lot sam didn't develop these emotions in a couple of days with emma,they build up for a long time....i still believe his rage and anger was really about his mom leaving...
    Excellent point re: Sam's rage rooted in mothers alleged infidelity.
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Sat May 01, 2010 3:34 am

    Originally Posted by dangrsmind
    Whoa. They blame Emma?

    I don't get that at all. She was 16 years old.

    Quote:

    Sarah McCroskey


    Thats just straight disrespectful dude. Until he is proven guilty for all 4, you shouldnt be talkin ****. I know my brother, and he had to have been provoked. He didnt do this for no reason. I was told Emma ****ed Sammy over REAL bad before all this happened. Something happened. Yeah he went too far, it really shouldnt have gone to that extent but until we get all the details, try and be a little respectful towards others. Sammy has a family too ya know.

    When my family and I fly out to Virginia and get some answers, I will let you know Andres. thats for damn sure. I also made a public statement to some reporters finally and I mentioned you. Thanks alot bro, you are a godsend Much love and respect to you and your lady.

    - Sarah


    Posted by SarahThiZZle on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 9:10 AM
    [Reply to this]
    Her reply to sicktanick's blog post
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Sat May 01, 2010 3:35 am

    Well, I don't understand the reasoning there, but this is his sister who is reaching for an explanation of her brother's actions not anyone from the SKR crew talking. It is a very sad situation for her I think.

    How bad do you have to screw someone over to "deserve" having your face smashed in with a hammer? And what about Emma's parents and Melanie?
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Sat May 01, 2010 3:36 am

    Originally Posted by piXy
    Thats my thoughts exactly, if she had screwed him over SO badly then why wouldnt he took his things to the show and hopped a plane back home afterwards from Detroit. There were quite a few ppl who flew in...
    or he could have hopped a ride from ppl in WIR back....
    or theres many things he could have done instead of brutally murdering Emma and Mel and Emmas parents
    Plus if she had screwed him over why kill everyone instead of just Emma. it makes no sense to me, none of this murder makes any sense to me.

    Oh, piXy, it doesn't make any sense. When someone goes over that edge and murders instead of just hopping a plane back home, or like when people kill their whole family instead of just taking themselves out, and all that senseless stuff, it leaves everyone around stunned and questioning like you are. I wish I could just wrap you up in a big soft blanket!
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Sat May 08, 2010 4:56 am

    ...i guess people do want acceptance,i'm sure sam was looking for that....i keep thinking it was more his sensitivities than anything else that made him snap....he was saving up money for months to go to va,he was planning to join the army afterwards,he was probably thinking he would meet his soulmate instead he walked into a world that was far out of his reach,something he would never belong to....i bet emma would have "grown" out of her "phase",she would have went to college and got married in a white gown....she seemed to be pretty spoiled.....I can just see sam raging against the whole situation,the beautiful kept house,people that probably spoke "eloquantly"...the whole nine yards,even now in that letter from jail he seems to look for belonging,a family .....i think he destroyed what he could never have...
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Wed May 12, 2010 2:05 am

    I know there was mention of the SKR people joking that if one of them ever killed someone to say that Jesus made them do it. Has anyone mentioned the line form Sicktanick's song "Take the Devil's Hand" that says, "When I make you kill a person I make you do it in God's name?"

    I don't think Sam was made to do this by other people, but I do think their music supplied him with the ability to do what came next. Maybe by imagining he was living one of the songs he liked so much he was able to seem so calm. Kind of like telling yourself a lie over and over can lead to it becoming the truth in your mind. It gives you the ability act calmly when confronted about the lie (obviously this is a much larger event than lying).

    Has anyone tried writing to Sam since the address was posted?
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Wed May 12, 2010 2:48 am

    It sounds to me like you are trying to make an excuse for why Sam committed such a crime. Sensitive or not, what Sam did was heinous and inexcusable. Also, why does it matter if Emma would have “grown” out of her “phase” or not? I thought the discussion was on what happened, not what would have happened.
    And a "beautifully kept house," huh? This may not have been the case at all. In fact, it has come to my attention that their house was quite the opposite on the inside. I am a Longwood University student and don’t know of anyone who would describe Professor Kelly as “eloquently” speaking. A respectable woman, yes, she was indeed an educator. But, she was a very approachable woman. And as for Emma speaking “eloquently,” yeah, I can see that now… her speaking “eloquently” as she smoked a bong. Yeah, right!

    http://cfc.wset.com/videoondemand.cfm?id=49050
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Thu May 13, 2010 3:03 am

    I think our world RAPIDLY became a different place... a more dangerous place.

    I agree that Emma probably had a great deal of control (I've seen it happen with divorced parents) but Tapu brings up a most interesting idea...that Emma was so accustomed to being in control and she obviously hated her parents and perhaps she used Sam to hurt them. Emma may have been the type who can peg a doormat and just maybe she was so hardened the core, she was a great manipulator ~ we don't know. Maybe that is why those who really knew Sam are so perplexed as to how he could have done this and are inferring that he was under the influence of...yeah someone other than Shirm.

    What about Mel? Is it possible that Emma was jealous or maybe she just had an all-around disregard for the lives of others? In the scenario that two died first, it could have been Mom and Mel and I get Mom, but am having issues with Mel.

    I also think it’s possible that the report was incorrect or maybe that the girls were killed first and it took a day for Debra to figure it out, at which time Sam had to do her in too.

    I do very much appreciate the info. on Farmville and the link between 505 etc. I think it is simply fascinating and tend to believe in bad juju and dark spirits and the possibility that Sam and Emma seemed very susceptible to the influences thereof. Not Mel so much. For some reason I read all of her hardcore profiles and look at her pictures and I can’t get a grip on the dark side of her. I feel like I can see it in Emma however – and of course that’s the very non-scientific, (or scientifical as I like to say but don’t want to cause emotional distress to The Tapu) and purely intuitional conclusion based on ziggy’s gut feelings.

    Could Emma have been influenced by her occult involvement and the bad juju at 505 1st?

    Does anyone know for sure how long Mark and Debra had been separated?
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Thu May 13, 2010 3:08 am

    I recall reading something like one year in the news and then hearing something different from a local here. Sorry can't recall the specifics.

    Even if you forget all the unexplained connections, here's a concrete example of how the social situation in Farmville had a role to play in these deaths.

    Both Emma and Sam were teased in school and were later home schooled. The conditions in Farmville and the schools there that led to Emma being bullied were another contributing factor here therefore. Perhaps this was not as big of a factor as Dr. Kelly's decision to allow Sam to stay in her home, but nonetheless I contend that Sam and Emma would have been much less likely to connect had this bullying not occurred.

    This aspect takes on new poignancy for me this week after viewing that Juggalo bullying video that was posted here and made the rounds on the Internet as well. And it leads me to wonder what sorts of videos Emma would have made if she had owned a camera back then. Was she bullied by jocks and preppies? it seems that outcast social groups like Juggalos and Emo kids are often in conflict with these more parentally acceptable social groups. Or was it Emma doing the bullying? Arguably that seems compatible with her Vampire Freaks profile to be frank.
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Sun May 23, 2010 4:24 am

    Originally Posted by dangrsmind
    The point is that 6 people at least have been killed in this vicinity this year, 4 in this case and 2 others at the night club. Do you dispute that number?

    And I didn't even count the guy that was involved in the murder out in Berrysville.

    You seem to be blinded by the conclusion you've already reached and are really twisting logic to convince yourself and the rest of us that it makes sense. That conclusion, from what I understand, being that something about Farmville causes people to murder.

    Starting with incorrect data makes it impossible to arrive at meaningful results. You are incorrect about the number of murders in Farmville in 2009. There were 4, not 6. That makes your original calculations about the per capita rate way off statistically speaking.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dangrsmind
    One more comment about Farmville's per capita murder rate...

    In 2009 there were 6 homicides in Farmville that I know about.

    The population of Farmville was approximately 7396 people in 2008. Therefore the 2009 murder rate per 100,000 citizens for Farmville VA is approximately (6/7,396)*100,000 = 81.1/100,000. That's higher than New Orlean's murder rate for 2008 which was 64/100,000 and New Orleans is the current murder capital of the U.S.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dangrsmind
    Thank you for correcting my date error, you are correct the other axe murder was in 2000. The axe murderer lived in Farmville despite his victims living elsewhere.

    That body by the lake was recovered in 2008 which is why I made the mistake above.

    More here on the body found at Sandy River Resevoir: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/News/2008...nth%20Case.pdf

    In 2008 Farmville had a higher per capita murder rate than New York City and San Francisco and it will have one of the highest per capita rates in the U.S. in 2009 as well. Remember this is the number of murders per 100,000 residents.

    The per capita murder rate in Farmville is higher than Mexico's national rate. Sure it is only a few people murdered, but all of this is happening in a town with less than 10,000 people total. And I guess they don't count the murders in nearby Rice or over the bridge in Cumberland in this total.

    Check out other small towns with a similar population and you won't find anything like this. I guess maybe people in the area don't find this surprising, but personally I was surprised.

    The figure you used for Farmville's population may be correct in your first calculation, but in response to peace_gurl's comment, you recalculated to come up with a figure that may accurately reflect Prince Edward County's per capita murder rate, but which still doesn't speak to the question of what Farmville's rate is.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dangrsmind
    Even using the entire county population, you'd still have a very high murder rate. And I expect there might be a another murder or two that would need to be included counting the entire county. But even using my number of 6 murders you would have the following:

    (6/21,823)*100,000 = 27.4939

    That's still a very high rate and higher than a lot of other places, for example San Francisco. It is approaching the rates seen in some places I expect you'd be likely to try and avoid i.e. Washington D.C. (34.1) and Baltimore MD (36.9).

    Washington D.C., a small city with a river at it's edge, is at least as inseparable from its surrounding areas on both sides of that river as you argue Farmville is from Prince Edward County and parts of Cumberland County. Its situation within the state of Maryland but separate from it is not entirely analogous to that of Farmville's relationship to Prince Edward county, but it's very close.

    D.C. is anything but homogeneous. It has parts where you would be hard pressed to get mugged at 4 in the A.M. and plenty of places I wouldn't go on foot in broad daylight. All of present day D.C. borders either the river or Maryland. Most of the dangerous parts of the city are near the Maryland border and spill over it. For the most part, you wouldn't be able to tell if you crossed the line between Maryland and the District and criminals certainly aren't going to stop at an imaginary line.

    Statistical data about crime though would be recorded and spoken of as though the (formerly complete) square that is called Washington D.C. existed in isolation. Events in Maryland would not affect the statistics re: per capita anything in D.C. and vice versa. The same holds true for Arlington, although it is right across the bridge. I find it puzzling that you are willing to isolate D.C. from its surroundings for statistical purposes, but not Farmville. Arlington was even once a part of the district, just as the area where Farmville is today may have once been a part of a plantation named Bizarre

    Certain areas and demographics in Washington suffer a much much higher rate of murder per capita than Farmville, and some consequently enjoy a relatively low rate which is far below that which you've calculated for Farmville. For someone to conclude, as you suggest that peace_gurl might, that a trip to D.C. should be avoided because one risks murder would be foolish. At least if statistical data is the sole basis for that conclusion. The numbers reveal no actual truth about the situation in the city because there is no situation. Rather, there are numerous situations, some benign and some not so.

    What you've ended up with is a textbook example of how statistics can be misused, innocently I honestly believe in your case, to argue for a conclusion that they simply don't support. It may be possible, but so far you have derived no accurate relevant statistics. You have no set of other places that we can accurately and reasonably compare Farmville to, which I think would be pretty difficult actually. You have demonstrated that difficulty yourself as I've hoped to show, with your reference to Washington D.C..

    So far the murders in Prince Edward County including Farmville for 2009 total 6 as far as we know. Two of those people, a man and a woman were shot by the woman's husband as they exited a night club together. One of those people was a young girl very likely killed by a man who one or both of them thought was her boyfriend. He may have killed an additional 3 people as part of the spree that took her life. Sadly, there is nothing unusual here if you look at some highly relevant statistics.

    "According to the U.S. Department of Justice, between 1998 and 2002:
    Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses.
    84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.
    Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers
    50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse."
    http://www.abanet.org/domviol/statistics.html

    edited to add from the same source quoted above..........
    The couple that was murdered at the nightclub was African American. The number one killer of African-American women ages 15 to 34 is homicide at the hands of a current or former intimate partner.
    Africana Voices Against Violence, Tufts University, Statistics, 2002, http://www.ase.tufts.edu/womenscente...statistics.htm
    ............................

    Far more relevant than any question about what's in the air in Farmville, or what Californian parents are doing wrong with their children is what can be done to keep women from being hurt or killed by men whom they love, trust, and believe they are safe with.
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    claudicici

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    Re: THEORIES FOR MOTIVE

    Post by claudicici on Wed May 26, 2010 4:44 am

    I don't know the "experts" make it look so predictable...if it was so predictible it shouldn't even happen...I don't believe it's just people with bi polar or any other mental disorders that can snap within hours,I believe the 'psychological build up" could happen completely unconsciously eg maybe in sam's case the mom cheating and then leaving the family....maybe he was using his "art" horrorcore subconsciously to deal with his feelings,never realizing the urge to kill was far too real....

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