$550 million that no one cares about

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/15/news/companies/SEC_goldman/index.htm?hpt=T1
The largest penatly ever paid to the SEC.
What does this mean. Means Goldman Sach's stock price rose and will continue to rise now the investors have a clear picture of the firms liability.
How much is $550 million.
Who knows what Goldman Sachs is worth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs
Their operating incomes in 2009 was roughly 19.8 billion. Or 19.8 thousand million therefore the largest penalty ever paid is going to amount to less than 1 months worth of operating income.
So I ask.. does this send a message?
Though I have said this before. This kind of penalty is an insult to everyone who was defrauded. Fraud is a criminal offence. If an individual commits fraud they go to prison. If a multi billion dollar corporation commits fraud they pay a penalty amounting to less than one month of operating income.

Hey I agree with Scott even though I'm a conservative cracker! Penalties are supposed to hurt. But I ask you: why is punitive action OK with you in regards to money but not with regards to loss of liberty in the penal system. Punishment for a wrong is what happens in court. Criminal courts should be allowed to punish too - not alway rehabilitate. Civil court is all about punishment with money because it's the only way to hit someone where it hurts without taking away any freedoms reserved for criminal incarcerations. Just wondering.

ziggy wrote:Hey I agree with Scott even though I'm a conservative cracker! Penalties are supposed to hurt. But I ask you: why is punitive action OK with you in regards to money but not with regards to loss of liberty in the penal system. Punishment for a wrong is what happens in court. Criminal courts should be allowed to punish too - not alway rehabilitate. Civil court is all about punishment with money because it's the only way to hit someone where it hurts without taking away any freedoms reserved for criminal incarcerations. Just wondering.

I am in favor of loss of liberty for those who commit crime. I never meant to give the impression that I was not. I think it would have sent a much better message if some people who acutally perpetraed corporate fraud went to prison. It would most certainly be more meaningful than token fines.
I assume you are referring to my LOUD anti death penalty stance in the portion I highlighted. To use the Sam McCroskey case as an example, I believe that Sam should lose his liberty by being confined to a prison for the rest of his life. A life in prison is punishment. I never asked that he get away with anything. I beleive this should actually be the norm for those who for those who commit murder. Unfortunately, in many cases, it is NOT.
What I am not in favor of is loss of life. Execution creates another unnecessary act of violence. Sam McCroskey is not a threat to anyone where he is. If there is a mistake [in his case I do not think that there is] there is no way for the system to fix it in the future. His death does not bring back the victims, it brings no peace, closure is a myth. In short if serves no purpose. It diminishes us all as a society. It hurts the correctional officers charged with the duty of strapping him to a gurney and putting needles in his arm. Ask anyone who has been in combat in the military if the killing meant anything to them. Ask if the violence ever leaves them. Ask if they are haunted by it. In most cases they are. No matter how justified or necessary the situation is, taking a human life is something that will never leave them.

Nothing would make me happier than to see corporate fraud perps behind bars!

I guess I was getting at the argument that the death penalty is "punishment" and that punishment is not what our criminal justice system is supposed to be for. I don't know that you've made that argument, but it is an argument that was conveyed on the subject.

I'm all for punishment, for the record. Giving not receiving though - thanks.

ziggy wrote:Nothing would make me happier than to see corporate fraud perps behind bars!

I guess I was getting at the argument that the death penalty is "punishment" and that punishment is not what our criminal justice system is supposed to be for. I don't know that you've made that argument, but it is an argument that was conveyed on the subject.

I'm all for punishment, for the record. Giving not receiving though - thanks.

The purpose of incarceration should be two fold and should be largely dependent upon what the convict is in custody for. There is an element of punishment to any incarceration. Even house arrest is a form of punishment. As much as you may love your house if you cannot leave for 9 months you are being punished. Certainly not as punished as going to jail but confinement is punishment.
For people serving life sentences [ie for murder] the only goal can be punishment. They are not going anywhere. It is up to them to find some meaning in what is left of their lives.
To only punish people who will be released someday though is short sighted. People in prison for drug offences, property crimes, even many violent crimes, will be released someday. They will be living in our communities. Society can OVER punish them, harden them, limit their options, then be amazed when they return to the exact same behaviors that landed them in jail in the first place or we can put some effort into education them, giving them some skills, removing some of the stigma, and easing their transition back into free society where then can hopefully become contributing members.