You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

I don't know anything about PCP except stay away from it Andres. And the only person I ever knew that did it crashed a car and was arrested. But I used to hear about people lacing joints sometimes back in the day. This was a long time ago...

These days most people I know buy weed in a store. It is not going to be laced with PCP unless you add it yourself.

dangrsmind wrote:I don't know anything about PCP except stay away from it Andres. And the only person I ever knew that did it crashed a car and was arrested. But I used to hear about people lacing joints sometimes back in the day. This was a long time ago...

These days most people I know buy weed in a store. It is not going to be laced with PCP unless you add it yourself.

Well, yeah. I have no plans to ever try it. I just happen to be working on a case where it's somewhat involved.

However, that's kind of the point. I'm talking about weed laced with PCP on purpose. Not some "OMG they laced my pot" story.

Andres you did not read my example with care - child porn anime is legal dude - as wrong as that seems, cartoon depictions of child sex abuse do not amount to child porn. Yet - if one were in the possession of this material and were charged with the crime of child sexual abuse, I can't see any reason why this evidence would not be introduced to corroborate the assertions that this defendant was inclined to enjoy this type of behavior; and relating that to our case, to show that Sam was inclined to enjoy the imagery of murder, bludgeoning, corpses, blood etc. his lyrics and his recordings would be introduced and not deemed merely prejucicial.

The prosecution does not need to prove motive however they are allowed to introduce evidence that would support any motive they will present to the jury no? They can't be barred from showing evidence in support of a viable motive IF it does have that probative value, even though it may be highly prejudicial. If the prosecution can show that it does indeed have a value beyond just inciting prejudice, then won't it most likely be allowed? I realize his songs weren't directly about killing those particular people, but given the circumstances, it could be shown through horrorcore music that serial killers are revered and that becoming one would insure his everlasting fame in the genre in which he so desperately wanted to be accepted.

BTW you guys are most kind to me considering I don't know the rule of law as well as you do and haven't ever tried a case. I do appreciate that civil debate on the issue can be had and any jabs will be taken with thick skin. I'll just rub some dirt on and get back in the game...thank God for my older brother. He taught me how to be tough.

ziggy wrote:Andres you did not read my example with care - child porn anime is legal dude - as wrong as that seems, cartoon depictions of child sex abuse do not amount to child porn. Yet - if one were in the possession of this material and were charged with the crime of child sexual abuse, I can't see any reason why this evidence would not be introduced to corroborate the assertions that this defendant was inclined to enjoy this type of behavior; and relating that to our case, to show that Sam was inclined to enjoy the imagery of murder, bludgeoning, corpses, blood etc. his lyrics and his recordings would be introduced and not deemed merely prejucicial.

The prosecution does not need to prove motive however they are allowed to introduce evidence that would support any motive they will present to the jury no? They can't be barred from showing evidence in support of a viable motive IF it does have that probative value, even though it may be highly prejudicial. If the prosecution can show that it does indeed have a value beyond just inciting prejudice, then won't it most likely be allowed? I realize his songs weren't directly about killing those particular people, but given the circumstances, it could be shown through horrorcore music that serial killers are revered and that becoming one would insure his everlasting fame in the genre in which he so desperately wanted to be accepted.

BTW you guys are most kind to me considering I don't know the rule of law as well as you do and haven't ever tried a case. I do appreciate that civil debate on the issue can be had and any jabs will be taken with thick skin. I'll just rub some dirt on and get back in the game...thank God for my older brother. He taught me how to be tough.

Actually, you're incorrect about the test. The test is if the prejudicial effect outweighs the probative value, it should not be admitted.

re: child porn anime. I know nothing about anime. I know nothing about child porn. However, if someone possesses child porn, they are committing a crime. I don't really see how having "fake" child porn, as it were, does anything for the case against that person. However, it's discretionary, and should be used on a case by case basis.

Also, Zig, you're going to be a great lawyer.

So how is this test accomplished? Both sides argue their points and the judge decides? How would you argue that the prejucicial value is greater? What is the test? From your point of view it is, but I can't wait to see the defense argue it overcoming all the points the prosecution will make to the contrary. Are these hearings the ones they call in limine?

Also, Zig, think about precedent. I am accused of a murder I did not commit. The prosecution is allowed to bring in evidence that I own many horror movies, have many cds that have violent imagery, and own many books about serial killers (my girlfriend has so many books about serial killers).

I dunno - I will have to research precedent on that. If I were accussed of murder you can bet that my true crime books and fascination on these forums would without any doubt in my mind, be introduced as evidence. The prosecution could say I was trying to find out how to avoid detection through researching forensics and how criminals are caught. Of course if there were no other evidence, circumstantial or otherwise that would connect me with the crime, that evidence would look pretty weak but I tend to think it would be used against me.

I am pretty sure being on these forums is a sure way to avoid jury duty

And now I shall pause to return to the fascinating subject of entrapment brought to me by Perkins...yawn.

ziggy wrote:I dunno - I will have to research precedent on that. If I were accussed of murder you can bet that my true crime books and fascination on these forums would without any doubt in my mind, be introduced as evidence. The prosecution could say I was trying to find out how to avoid detection through researching forensics and how criminals are caught. Of course if there were no other evidence, circumstantial or otherwise that would connect me with the crime, that evidence would look pretty weak but I tend to think it would be used against me.

I am pretty sure being on these forums is a sure way to avoid jury duty

And now I shall pause to return to the fascinating subject of entrapment brought to me by Perkins...yawn.

Ugh. I hope so. I was on jury duty last summer and I was shocked I was picked to be on the jury. It was a civil trial and I think the attorney thought I was going to side with them just because I was an attorney. It was a total chiropractor scam.

Re: PCP. It was a huge problem in Washington DC back in the late 70's early 80's. They called it Love Boat and it was a big part of the Go-Go scene there. There was a lot of violence associated with that, and it was often attributed to PCP using or selling patrons. Word got out about all the crazy shit associated with loveboat, and no one I knew would try it at all.

The last I've even heard of anyone I know using PCP was back in the early 80's and none of them said they would do it again. Some of them were heavy LSD and mushroom users, so not afraid of those realms, but very down on PCP. Almost all of them didn't know at the time what they were smoking and had weird bad experiences. Jimson weed is about the only other drug I've heard as many negative reports about.

When I was in junior high school, circa 1977, a friend told me he had a rolling paper that had been soaked and he was planning on rolling a joint to get the PCP high. That was the one and only time I've heard of someone actually intending to try the stuff. That reminds me of the line from Peter Frampton's Do You Feel Like We Do? "Champagne for breakfast and a sherman in my hand." A sherman, also known as a "sherm" is slang for a PCP dipped cigarette.

Clearly there are still people messing with PCP or Andres wouldn't have his client, which makes me wonder who hasn't gotten the word or has and still wants to give it a try. Something else that changed many years ago, specifically to deal with the problem of PCP, was that buying the precursor chemicals like piperidine was made much more difficult. I had been under the impression that the drug was mostly gone as a result of that. [url=Erowid][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has some relatively recent posts from people who've tried it, so maybe it's making a comeback.

Couldn't Sherman also refer to a Nat Sherman cigarette? Just hoping Frampton wasn't talking about PCP.

ziggy wrote:Couldn't Sherman also refer to a Nat Sherman cigarette? Just hoping Frampton wasn't talking about PCP.

I think cigarettes are nasty things and didn't even know there was such a brand. I thought everything I heard in junior high school was fact, but I guess not. Even Wikipedia mentions Frampton under the Nat Sherman heading. Sherman and shirm were slang words for a PCP laced cigarettes in mid-70's Oklahoma. One of those is the name of our favorite New Mexican record label owner. Not that I think it's significant, but we love those sorts of coincidences around here.

Well I used to partake in a clove cigarette now and then - just to be really bad. At least they didn't smell stinky. I called them Ham because it reminded me of when my Mother made ham and stuffed it with cloves. In search of Ham, I would notice the other fancy cigs behind the counter and Nat Sherman always stood out because it sounded so "imported". The government has now outlawed my Ham. Guess I'm better off for it (not that I was a regular user) but it still made me angry. Cigs do smell horrible.

blouAngel wrote:Re: PCP. It was a huge problem in Washington DC back in the late 70's early 80's. They called it Love Boat and it was a big part of the Go-Go scene there. There was a lot of violence associated with that, and it was often attributed to PCP using or selling patrons. Word got out about all the crazy shit associated with loveboat, and no one I knew would try it at all.

The last I've even heard of anyone I know using PCP was back in the early 80's and none of them said they would do it again. Some of them were heavy LSD and mushroom users, so not afraid of those realms, but very down on PCP. Almost all of them didn't know at the time what they were smoking and had weird bad experiences. Jimson weed is about the only other drug I've heard as many negative reports about.

When I was in junior high school, circa 1977, a friend told me he had a rolling paper that had been soaked and he was planning on rolling a joint to get the PCP high. That was the one and only time I've heard of someone actually intending to try the stuff. That reminds me of the line from Peter Frampton's Do You Feel Like We Do? "Champagne for breakfast and a sherman in my hand." A sherman, also known as a "sherm" is slang for a PCP dipped cigarette.

Clearly there are still people messing with PCP or Andres wouldn't have his client, which makes me wonder who hasn't gotten the word or has and still wants to give it a try. Something else that changed many years ago, specifically to deal with the problem of PCP, was that buying the precursor chemicals like piperidine was made much more difficult. I had been under the impression that the drug was mostly gone as a result of that. [url=Erowid][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has some relatively recent posts from people who've tried it, so maybe it's making a comeback.

Purely anecdotal, but PCP is still around in the DC area. I've never done it myself but I do know several people who smoke laced weed often. I don't know why they seek this stuff out.

James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

It's called boat. I want to know what genius decided to try that, I think it's pretty disgusting.

DoctorZ wrote:

Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

It's called boat. I want to know what genius decided to try that, I think it's pretty disgusting.

I would agree, I dont smoke myself but when I did I was happy with some plain old skunky sticky stuff, didnt need to dip it anything to make it better.

I wonder how it started too, ill have to do some research on that. Boat, thanks.

blouAngel wrote:Re: PCP. It was a huge problem in Washington DC back in the late 70's early 80's. They called it Love Boat and it was a big part of the Go-Go scene there. There was a lot of violence associated with that, and it was often attributed to PCP using or selling patrons. Word got out about all the crazy shit associated with loveboat, and no one I knew would try it at all.

The last I've even heard of anyone I know using PCP was back in the early 80's and none of them said they would do it again. Some of them were heavy LSD and mushroom users, so not afraid of those realms, but very down on PCP. Almost all of them didn't know at the time what they were smoking and had weird bad experiences. Jimson weed is about the only other drug I've heard as many negative reports about.

When I was in junior high school, circa 1977, a friend told me he had a rolling paper that had been soaked and he was planning on rolling a joint to get the PCP high. That was the one and only time I've heard of someone actually intending to try the stuff. That reminds me of the line from Peter Frampton's Do You Feel Like We Do? "Champagne for breakfast and a sherman in my hand." A sherman, also known as a "sherm" is slang for a PCP dipped cigarette.

Clearly there are still people messing with PCP or Andres wouldn't have his client, which makes me wonder who hasn't gotten the word or has and still wants to give it a try. Something else that changed many years ago, specifically to deal with the problem of PCP, was that buying the precursor chemicals like piperidine was made much more difficult. I had been under the impression that the drug was mostly gone as a result of that. [url=Erowid][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has some relatively recent posts from people who've tried it, so maybe it's making a comeback.

Jimson weed, also known as Dartura I think is the name (Purple Trumpets?), grows all over the place here in Arizona, wild, and there was a time when all the kids were doing it and reports all over the media about them going completely fucking insane on it.

One of my best friends was a big time LSD muchroom guy for years, loved to travel like that and he got in to Jimson weed because it was easy to get, was doing it everyday for about a year and I could literally see him slowing going insane and I mean he was fucking NUTS after about 3 months of it, totally gone and out of touch with reality, after a year he died, went to bed one night real fucked up on from what I heard from his girlfriend and didnt wake up the next day, cardiac arrest, 41 years old. Bad mojo for sure.

There is another one you can buy in the store, its legal, the name escapes me at the moment, but its supposed to be the most intense trip you can imagine, nothing even compares, but its a very dark, evil and bad trip and most people wont do it again after the first time, supposed to only last a few minutes but its something you do only once from what friends have told me because it is very dark and extremely intense trip. Thats probably why its legal, nobody in their right mind would abuse it.

Maybe someone can help me out with the name of this stuff, I just cant remember it right now but the smoke shop here sells it, its cheap and legal.

The best natural experience I have had was morning glory seeds, grind them up in to a milk shake, its an interesting experience and wasnt intense to the point I was afraid of it but not as pleasant as mushrooms. Anyway, those days are all behind me now, too old for that shit.

Paximus wrote:

blouAngel wrote:Re: PCP. It was a huge problem in Washington DC back in the late 70's early 80's. They called it Love Boat and it was a big part of the Go-Go scene there. There was a lot of violence associated with that, and it was often attributed to PCP using or selling patrons. Word got out about all the crazy shit associated with loveboat, and no one I knew would try it at all.

The last I've even heard of anyone I know using PCP was back in the early 80's and none of them said they would do it again. Some of them were heavy LSD and mushroom users, so not afraid of those realms, but very down on PCP. Almost all of them didn't know at the time what they were smoking and had weird bad experiences. Jimson weed is about the only other drug I've heard as many negative reports about.

When I was in junior high school, circa 1977, a friend told me he had a rolling paper that had been soaked and he was planning on rolling a joint to get the PCP high. That was the one and only time I've heard of someone actually intending to try the stuff. That reminds me of the line from Peter Frampton's Do You Feel Like We Do? "Champagne for breakfast and a sherman in my hand." A sherman, also known as a "sherm" is slang for a PCP dipped cigarette.

Clearly there are still people messing with PCP or Andres wouldn't have his client, which makes me wonder who hasn't gotten the word or has and still wants to give it a try. Something else that changed many years ago, specifically to deal with the problem of PCP, was that buying the precursor chemicals like piperidine was made much more difficult. I had been under the impression that the drug was mostly gone as a result of that. [url=Erowid][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has some relatively recent posts from people who've tried it, so maybe it's making a comeback.

Jimson weed, also known as Dartura I think its the name, grows all over the place here in Arizona, wild, and there was a time when all the kids were doing it and reports all over the media about them going completely fucking insane on it.

One of my best friends was a big time LSD muchroom guy for years, loved to travel like that and he got in to Jimson weed because it was easy to get, was doing it everyday for about a year and I could literally see him slowing going insane and I mean he was fucking NUTS after about 3 months of it, totally gone and out of touch with reality, after a year he died, went to bed one night real fucked up on from what I heard from his girlfriend and didnt wake up the next day, cardiac arrest, 41 years old. Bad mojo for sure.

There is another one you can buy in the store, its legal, the name escapes me at the moment, but its supposed to be the most intense trip you can imagine, nothing even compares, but its a very dark, evil and bad trip and most people wont do it again after the first time, supposed to only last a few minutes but its something you do only once from what friends have told me because it is very dark and extremely intense trip. Thats probably why its legal, nobody in their right mind would abuse it.

Maybe someone can help me out with the name of this stuff, I just cant remember it right now but the smoke shop here sells it, its cheap and legal.

Are you talking about salvia? I think it's name is salvia divinorum. Never done it but heard people talk about it.

DoctorZ wrote:

Paximus wrote:

blouAngel wrote:Re: PCP. It was a huge problem in Washington DC back in the late 70's early 80's. They called it Love Boat and it was a big part of the Go-Go scene there. There was a lot of violence associated with that, and it was often attributed to PCP using or selling patrons. Word got out about all the crazy shit associated with loveboat, and no one I knew would try it at all.

The last I've even heard of anyone I know using PCP was back in the early 80's and none of them said they would do it again. Some of them were heavy LSD and mushroom users, so not afraid of those realms, but very down on PCP. Almost all of them didn't know at the time what they were smoking and had weird bad experiences. Jimson weed is about the only other drug I've heard as many negative reports about.

When I was in junior high school, circa 1977, a friend told me he had a rolling paper that had been soaked and he was planning on rolling a joint to get the PCP high. That was the one and only time I've heard of someone actually intending to try the stuff. That reminds me of the line from Peter Frampton's Do You Feel Like We Do? "Champagne for breakfast and a sherman in my hand." A sherman, also known as a "sherm" is slang for a PCP dipped cigarette.

Clearly there are still people messing with PCP or Andres wouldn't have his client, which makes me wonder who hasn't gotten the word or has and still wants to give it a try. Something else that changed many years ago, specifically to deal with the problem of PCP, was that buying the precursor chemicals like piperidine was made much more difficult. I had been under the impression that the drug was mostly gone as a result of that. [url=Erowid][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has some relatively recent posts from people who've tried it, so maybe it's making a comeback.

Jimson weed, also known as Dartura I think its the name, grows all over the place here in Arizona, wild, and there was a time when all the kids were doing it and reports all over the media about them going completely fucking insane on it.

One of my best friends was a big time LSD muchroom guy for years, loved to travel like that and he got in to Jimson weed because it was easy to get, was doing it everyday for about a year and I could literally see him slowing going insane and I mean he was fucking NUTS after about 3 months of it, totally gone and out of touch with reality, after a year he died, went to bed one night real fucked up on from what I heard from his girlfriend and didnt wake up the next day, cardiac arrest, 41 years old. Bad mojo for sure.

There is another one you can buy in the store, its legal, the name escapes me at the moment, but its supposed to be the most intense trip you can imagine, nothing even compares, but its a very dark, evil and bad trip and most people wont do it again after the first time, supposed to only last a few minutes but its something you do only once from what friends have told me because it is very dark and extremely intense trip. Thats probably why its legal, nobody in their right mind would abuse it.

Maybe someone can help me out with the name of this stuff, I just cant remember it right now but the smoke shop here sells it, its cheap and legal.

Are you talking about salvia? I think it's name is salvia divinorum. Never done it but heard people talk about it.

YES thats it. A lot of freinds have done it and say its something you DO ONE TIME and thats IT. Extremely dark stuff, takes you a PLACE YOU DO NOT WANT TO REVISIT.

Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

Embalming fluid is also slang for PCP . . .

AndresEscobar wrote:

Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

Embalming fluid is also slang for PCP . . .

No shit? Never knew it, thanks.

Paximus wrote:

AndresEscobar wrote:

Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

Embalming fluid is also slang for PCP . . .

No shit? Never knew it, thanks.

I didn't know that until yesterday.

Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

Embalming fluid is slang for liquid PCP which cigarettes are dipped in. That's late 70's doper lingo. Seems to still be around.

I now I see Andes has covered that already. Sometimes it's best to read it all before answering anything.

blouAngel wrote:

Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

Embalming fluid is slang for liquid PCP which cigarettes are dipped in. That's late 70's doper lingo. Seems to still be around.

So are you saying nobody actually dips their weed in to actual embalming fluid and that when I hear that to be the case its really PCP? I am not sure if thats entirely true because I do know friends that told me they actually used embalming fluid although I dont question that it may be slang for PCP in some circles on the streets.