Abby is alive - would you let your 16 yr. old sail solo around the world?

I keep hearing all the criticism of Abby's parents but I really think that you cannot compare the extraordinary teenager to the ordinary one.

Abby was driven and she wanted to do this. She is also very skilled and obviously very courageous. After I read her blog I am practically in awe of her.

Chelsea and Amber lost their lives just by taking a jog or walking to school.

Today I realize that life is so very short - SAIL AROUND THE WORLD IF YOU CAN.

You rock Abby.

I have mixed feelings about this. Yes she is an exceptional kid.... but she is still a kid. A 16 year old girl all alone out in the ocean just feels kind of wrong.

I felt that way at first too. I am generally very opinionated (no....shocking) and it takes a lot to change my mind but I did. Every kid is different and it is up to the parents to make the decision. The government cannot save everyone from bad judgement nor should it be expected to...even when it comes to kids, as sad as that is to say. The government entities make bad decisions all the time to send kids back to or leave them in unsafe homes and they are harmed. There is no way to avoid every instance of harm to a child.

Girls get murdered in their homes, on the way to school, killed in cars by drunk drivers - doing the most ordinary and "safe" things. An extraordinary girl, which I believe Abby to be in this respect, should be judged on her merits and her maturity, not compared to the average kid.

I have mixed feelings, but given all the factors I don't think it's completely irresponsible for them to allow her to try this.

I did a Tony Robbins firewalk seminar once. It was empowering certainly. I can't imagine what sailing around the world solo would do for someone! This is Abby's firewalk. So be it.

I'm not into the whole "youngest to do..." phenom. It has that Jon-Benet Ramsey feel to it. Like, the parents are basing choices for their children on something other than, or in addition to, their overall well-being.

Well I suggest this as a good read on the subject; it's thought provoking for sure.

http://irresponsibility.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/boob-jobs-at-13-better-than-going-to-sea/

I think people forget that kids know what they want and aren't afraid to say it. When I was 5, during a commercial break on "Bonanza", I marched into the kitchen and announced to my parents that it was time for me to have a horse.

They worked weekends to afford that horse for me because I was determined to have one; obsessed.

Through the years I got more challenging horses to work with. My mother would hold her breathe and watch out the kitchen window as I was trying to break my 2 year old in the open field, near a city road. I was 16. He was bucking and crow hopping all over the place and she just knew I had to take the risk. She wasn't going to talk me out of it and she felt I had the skills and I would be strong and smart. Her confidence in me made me who I am.

The world is a dangerous place. I'd rather kids learn to accomplish things and be skilled at something other than Wii and have their parents love and approval. That's all.

So... my kid (age 11) wants to travel. He'd like to do New York, alone, for a weekend. I tell him no. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is why he has parents.

I'm not saying I don't let my kid take some risks, but sailing
around the world alone at 16 is not one I would allow. I take my job as
his parent very seriously. Children, even at 16, are not able to comprehend the full picture of something so enormous. Neither, actually, are most of us. It sounds like Abbey's parents do... which frankly, I think casts a worse light on them for letting her go.

I see this differently. There's a good chance that even though you've taken every precaution you can and trained your kid in martial arts for protection etc. that he could still be harmed going to NYC alone because there are way too many variables. But here, we've got a pretty controlled situation and fewer variables in the danger that she could encounter, basically weather and pirates and her route was chosen to avoid pirates. So she's been well trained and she is obviously more mature than the average 16 year old and all possible precautions have been taken. It's just not a good apples to apples comparison.

To their credit - when her boat did get in trouble it did exactly what it was supposed to - it righted itself. Abby also did what she was supposed to when she lost all communication through her broken mast and sent out the red alert. In the case of emergency it went as well as we could hope and that wasn't by accident.

Well... glad she lived, so far.

ziggy wrote:I see this differently. There's a good chance that even though you've taken every precaution you can and trained your kid in martial arts for protection etc. that he could still be harmed going to NYC alone because there are way too many variables. But here, we've got a pretty controlled situation and fewer variables in the danger that she could encounter, basically weather and pirates and her route was chosen to avoid pirates. So she's been well trained and she is obviously more mature than the average 16 year old and all possible precautions have been taken. It's just not a good apples to apples comparison.

To their credit - when her boat did get in trouble it did exactly what it was supposed to - it righted itself. Abby also did what she was supposed to when she lost all communication through her broken mast and sent out the red alert. In the case of emergency it went as well as we could hope and that wasn't by accident.

I am leaning towards Tapu's stance on this. I see a lot of potential variables in ocean travel. Weather is a huge one. Experienced sailors with more reasources go down in storms. It may be understating it to just refer to it as just another variable. It has the very real potential to kill her. She could have mechanical problems with the boat or some of the other equipment. She could get lost. She could be injured. Hit a wave wrong, break a bone, or split her head on the bulkhead and you have a seriously injured child in a very isolated situation. She could fall off the boat. She could mentally break down. I am not sure I could count on a 16 year old, even an exceptional one, to keep it together in her mind when she is faced with prolonged periods of isolation and possible fear. I understand her route was chose to avoid pirates. What about other vessels in other parts of the world that could have contact with her? Maybe some other ship outside normal shipping lanes just wants to check her out. The idea of a 16 year old girl in an isolated area 2 days from contact wth the outside world with some strange men that no one knows anything about makes me uneasy.
That said, I am glad that the emergency procedures worked out as designed and that she is safe.

But all the actual variables you cite are specifically related to sea travel for which she has been trained and is very experienced. Mechanical problems were addressed; she can't get lost with her navigation equipment and she has trained to navigate organically. She knows how to react in turbulent seas and I think splitting her head open or falling out are far fetched; even so, she has the ability to activate the distress beacon. If you read her blog you would see she if prefectly capable of the mental strength to do what she's doing. Other ships would not have the means to get up beside her and board her vessel without a smaller boat to deploy. She's in a boat used for racing so I don't think she would be the victim of an unwanted man in the middle of the ocean from some giant shipping vessel coming aboard.

Coupla thoughts:

1. I think that arguing it's not that dangerous is bordering on the absurd at this point.

2. I do find it easier to see this kind of opportunity as worth the risk when I'm thinking about someone else's kid and not my own. Problem is (or maybe it's not a problem--maybe it's the key) I can't consider it at all without thinking of my own kid. It's a point of reference you might have if you're not a parent; you naturally do have when you are.

JMHO

I do think of this as a parent. There is some level of risk with any activity. To some degree you have to make judgments based on the individual child. What is appropriate for one may not be appropriate for another. I cannot see a scenario where I would be okay with one of my kids trying this at 16.

Of course it's dangerous but you would weigh the risk versus the skill, maturity of the child and their drive to do it. As a parent, for sure, you would want the right to make decisions for your child and not have that right taken away.

I come down harder on this than Scott does. I do not think it is appropriate for anyone's 16 year old child to sail alone around the world. Just as I don't think it's appropriate for a child of 16 to navigate alone a major city that they don't know.
________________________

Then, I was thinking about another perspective on this: My son is 11. Let's say he has been sailing all his life. He has the same kind of experience that Abby has. Should I let him go? If you say no, then I'll ask, How about when he turns 12? If you say yes, well, I won't take your opinion about Abby very seriously....
So, I'm thinking about all the directions this line of thought might take us. I look forward to seeing you guys!

This is a contest of sorts for a "sport" that requires an acquired skill and therefore it's not comparable to something you've described. I think you are taking it to the absurd in an attempt to do so.

It seems so much simpler than that to me: It's a very dangerous situation that you're sending a young person into alone. It's irresponsible to the child. Again, it is exactly why they have parents. To protect them and make decisions for them until they are responsible to do so themselves. (I realize, Ziggy, that this does not actually address the point you're making, but for me it is the overreaching point. I just can't take seriously the argument that it's "not so dangerous for her.")

Oh, hey, and then, I was wondering.... How it that it's legal for them to let her go? Did a court have to rule it okay, or what?

About that: we have laws that say kids have to be 18 before they can do certain things. What if there was a kid here and there who clearly and verifiably was mature enough to handle adult things before that. Say, at 16. Do you know why it would be a very bad idea to allow that? Because then we start getting cases to verify all the time. And some of these really, really mature kids are now... 14. You need to have a cut-off. I don't care if she becomes the youngest person to sail the world alone, nearly as much as I care if she is kept safe the same as everyone else in her age group.

Fine then I guess we better get court orders for football because there have been many fatalities and also some paralyzations. We should hold those parents responsible for letting their kids do something so dangersous,, for God's sake where is the governement?...and then there's driving. Sheesh I hope you don't let your child drive a car until he's 18 or, uh oh, if anything bad happens you really should have known how dangerous it was. And if you own a farm or an orchard, be sure you ask the government if it's OK for your kid to drive the tractor or the ladders to work in the family business because grown men have been know to get seriously injured by both of those things.

Ballet...going on point too early and it happens ALL THE TIME can permanently disfigure a girl's feet and leave her with a lifetime of problems and don't get me started on girl's gymnastics and I seriously DO HOPE that parents will understand when they need permission from the government to make decisions about how much risk they let their own child take.

The absudity is that this activity - this endeavor requiring skill and measurable risk, is not the same as a random long term jaunt to a city. That's the issue here for me - that the comparisons are faulty.

Abby's parents don't seem irresponsible as parents but them asking for donations to get the stupid boat back is embarrassing.

I put staying alone in the city and sailing alone across some ocean in the same basket as to unreasonable risk. I don't put ballet in there with them.... One person's absurd is another person's reasoned, I guess.

I went to a creditor [yawn] law seminar several years ago. Most of the stuff is pretty dry. One of the speakers made an impression on me. He was a former judge that resigned his position to go into private practice. He felt like he had some additional perspective becuase he had experience on the other side of the bench.
He described a concept he referred to as the "wince factor". The idea is tell your case like a story. If the story makes you wince.. .then chances are it will make a judge or jury wince as well. For example, if you take a car away from a single mom working two jobs to support her handicapped child beucase she was a couple weeks late on a car payment then the jury is not likely going to be especially impressed that section 12b of your contract supports your position. Just because you can do something.. does not mean that you should. If it feels wrong to you it will feel wrong to others.
I think that her parents should be allowed to permit this. I don't think the goverment can regulate everything to keep us safe. But, this story about Abby made me wince.

Okay, now how about the news today that the father had set up a reality show contract around Abby and the whole family doing stuff like this.

I can't decide if people are making too big a deal over that, or if that further calls into question the judgment that went into letting her go.

Weird case. I actually hated to see that reality show news today.

Towing the boat back will be expensive I guess
I have no problem with reality shows where people do risky things. I do have a problem with putting a child at risk. It may be an arbitrary line that the law drew somewhere but as a society we seem to agree that 18 is an adult [21 in some cases] and 16 is a child. Right or wrong, I would feel better about this whole thing if she were a couple years older.

If that's true, if there was an ulterior motive then the media will be like on these parents like a pit bull on a 2 year old (sorry pit bull lovers). I won't feel sorry for them. They've put themselves out there and if there are some ugly secrets then I hope they are brought to light. I guess all things could be true: 1) Abby really wanted to do this 2) she was skilled and could handle it and 3) they exploited it for a shot at a TV show.

Brother. Balloon boy and now this. Sad people in America huh?

ziggy wrote:If that's true, if there was an ulterior motive then the media will be like on these parents like a pit bull on a 2 year old (sorry pit bull lovers). I won't feel sorry for them. They've put themselves out there and if there are some ugly secrets then I hope they are brought to light. I guess all things could be true: 1) Abby really wanted to do this 2) she was skilled and could handle it and 3) they exploited it for a shot at a TV show.

Brother. Balloon boy and now this. Sad people in America huh?

I like the pit bull on the 2 year old anology. I may use that one later.
Pit bulls and other dangerous dogs in residential settings could be a whole other thread.

Speaking of offensive reality tv...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/7704737/Anger-over-reality-television-virgin-auction.html
Anger over reality television 'virgin auction'


An Australian documentary maker is trying to convince several young people to appear in a reality television programme in which they auction their virginity to the highest bidder.




Published: 11:22AM BST 10 May 2010

One of the male virgins, identified only as Alex, said he had applied as a way of meeting someone Photo: GETTY IMAGES



Justin Sisley was forced to move the auction from the Australian state of Victoria to Nevada in America, after authorities said they would charge him with prostitution if the filming went ahead.

Sisley has gone public with the controversial project, claiming to have at least one willing participant.


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Family First Senator Steve Fielding described the documentary as "absurd, ridiculous and disgusting"
The virgins will be paid $20,000 (£12,000) each to take part in the auction and will also receive 90 per cent of their "sale price", according to a report in the Sydney Daily Telegraph.
The remainder of the money will go to the Nevada brothel which is hosting the event.
Initial bids will be placed online, but bidders will attend the final part of the auction, coming face to face with the people whose virginity they are bidding for.
One 21-year-old woman from Sydney, who used the name Veronica, said she had signed up for the auction to earn money and challenge traditional perceptions about sex.
"Technically I'm selling my virginity for money, technically that would be classified as prostitution, but it's not going to be a regular thing, so in my head I can justify that I'm not going to be a prostitute," she told the paper.
"I don't think I'll regret it."
One of the prospective male virgins, identified only as Alex, said he had applied as a way of meeting someone.
Sisley admitted his plan was unpopular with the parents of the people involved. "They hate me," he said.

Despair