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    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius"

    dangrsmind
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    Post by dangrsmind Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:14 pm

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    Post by Percy Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:31 pm

    This is a great topic and I will have much to add as time permits. I would like to discuss in particular the connection between genius and mental illness.


    Also, for fun, what do you think of these guys DM?


    http://www.subgenius.com/
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    Post by dangrsmind Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:41 pm

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Image-184635-1334944-ProfBadTripBobDobbsSubgenius
    I'm down with Dr. Bob from way back. Knew some of these folks on the WELL...
    Percy
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    Post by Percy Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:23 pm

    dangrsmind wrote:Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Image-184635-1334944-ProfBadTripBobDobbsSubgenius
    I'm down with Dr. Bob from way back. Knew some of these folks on the WELL...


    LOL I love it, great pic and I can always count on you for the inside scoop on so many things, youre right in the middle of all the cool shit there in the bay where it all starts and simmers.
    Percy
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    Post by Percy Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:16 am

    One of my favorite areas of study and something I did my Masters Thesis work on is the link between genuis and mental illness.

    Discuss...


    http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020422222106data_trunc_sys.shtml
    Link Between Creative Genius And Mental Illness Established
    by Kate Melville

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Stressedfella


    For decades, scientists have known that eminently creative individuals have a much higher rate of manic depression, or bipolar disorder, than does the general population. But few controlled studies have been done to build the link between mental illness and creativity. Now, Stanford researchers Connie Strong and Terence Ketter, MD, have taken the first steps toward exploring the relationship.
    Using personality and temperament tests, they found healthy artists to be more similar in personality to individuals with manic depression than to healthy people in the general population. "My hunch is that emotional range, having an emotional broadband, is the bipolar patient's advantage," said Strong. "It isn't the only thing going on, but something gives people with manic depression an edge, and I think it's emotional range."
    Strong is a research manager in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science's bipolar disorders clinic and a doctoral candidate at the Pacific Graduate School. She is presenting preliminary results during a poster presentation today (May 21) at the annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association Meeting in Philadelphia.
    The current study is groundbreaking for psychiatric research in that it used separate control groups made up of both healthy, creative people and people from the general population.
    Researchers administered standard personality, temperament and creativity tests to 47 people in the healthy control group, 48 patients with successfully treated bipolar disorder and 25 patients successfully treated for depression. She also tested 32 people in a healthy, creative control group. This group was comprised of Stanford graduate students enrolled in prestigious product design, creative writing and fine arts programs, including Stegner Fellows in writing, students in the interdisciplinary Joint Program in Design from the Department of Mechanical Engineering and studio arts master's students from the Department of Art & Art History. All subjects were matched for age, gender, education and socioeconomic status.
    Preliminary analysis showed that people in the control group and recovered manic depressives were more open and likely to be moody and neurotic than healthy controls. Moodiness and neuroticism are part of a group of characteristics researchers are calling "negative-affective traits" which also include mild, nonclinical forms of depression and bipolar disorder.
    Though the data are preliminary, they provide a roadmap for psychiatric researchers looking to solve the genius/madness paradox depicted in the movie A Beautiful Mind, which tells the story of Nobel Laureate John Nash. The existing data need further review, Strong said. "And, we need to expand this to other groups," he said. How mood influences the performance of artists and genius scientists will be the subject of future research at Stanford. "We need to better understand the emotional side of what they do," Strong said.


    Last edited by Paximus on Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Percy Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:16 am

    The link between genius and mental illness
    Gifted, successful people with depression, bipolar and anxiety disorders

    Have you read these?




    Essential information



    Educational materials
    for providers and
    group facilitators.




    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Poe
    "Men have called me mad," wrote Edgar Allan Poe, but the question is not yet settled, whether madness is or is not the loftiest intelligence...whether much that is glorious--whether all that is profound--does not spring from disease of thought..."

    Many people have long shared Poe's suspicion that genius and insanity are entwined, writes psychiatrist Kay Redfield Jamison, international authority on mental illness. Many poets, painters and composers throughout history have had depression or mania.

    Some researchers, along with Jamison, speculate that mood disorders allow people to think more creatively and to experience a broad range of intense emotions. Jamison, the author of several books on mental health, explores the topic in
    Touched with Fire: Manic-Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperament.


    Here's a glimpse of just a few of the gifted and successful figures of our times who have lived with mental illness.

    Bipolar Disorder

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" PattyDuke

    Anna Marie Patty Duke Pearce, Award-winning star of television, Broadway and film; author and spokesperson for mental health: After years of turmoil, she was diagnosed with manic depression (bipolar disorder) "She credits Lithium with keeping her symptoms under control. "No more crazy highs, no more suicidal lows. It's given me a life!" Anna said about her successful treatment.

    Winston Churchill 1874-1965, Prime Minister (U.K.): "Had he been a stable and equable man, he could never have inspired the nation. In 1940, when all the odds were against Britain, a leader of sober judgment might well have concluded that we were finished," wrote Anthony Storr about Churchill's bipolar disorder in Churchill's Black Dog, Kafka's Mice, and Other Phenomena of the Human Mind.

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" BrianWilson

    Brian Wilson, founding member, producer, composer, and arranger for The Beach Boys: "I went through times that were so scary that I wasn't sure I'd make it through," he recalls in a story in The Los Angeles Times: But he returned triumphant to the stage, having "emerged from his darkest, most paralyzing blue period to again celebrate his music - and the human spirit - with his fans."

    Robert Munsch, beloved and best-selling children's author, of such delightful and irreverent books as Mortimer, The Paper Bag Princess and Love You Forever. “About grade seven or eight, things started getting weird and wonky,” he says. “I'd feel great for two weeks, then horribly depressed for two weeks.…" Munsch says he's not classic bipolar, “I'm depressed more than I'm up.” Antidepressant medication has worked well for Munsch, softening his moods but not stifling his creativity.


    Art Buchwald, writer, Pulitzer Prize-winning humorist: Buchwald's career, built upon his razor-sharp wit, includes 30 books and syndication in 500+ newspapers. He talks openly about "the black pit" of his mental illness, having been hospitalized for depression in 1963 and for manic depression in 1987. Since his recovery, he has used his high-profile status to educate the public about mental health issues, especially about stigmatization of mental illness in the workplace and the ways it affects employee promotion, job security and work relationships.
    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" CarrieFisher

    Carrie Fisher, actress and author renowned as Princess Leia in Star Wars and daughter of Eddie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds, was diagnosed as manic-depressive at age 24. In her book Postcards from the Edge and the film it inspired, she wrote about her rehab, electroshock treatment and recovery from her illness and her drug addictions. She has started in countless films and television shows and her memoirs and novels have been best-sellers.


    Depression

    Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States
    In Lincoln’s Melancholy: How Depression Challenged a President and Fueled His Greatnes, author Joshua Wolf Shenk writes: "Sometimes, a impenetrable fog seemed to settle around him... [At times] Lincoln sunk into a deep depression which deeply worried his friends and led in 1841 to aggressive medical treatment which probably made him worse.

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Hemingway

    Ernest Hemingway: Winner of the Pulitzer Prize (1952), and the Nobel Prize in Literature (1954), the novelist's suicidal depression is examined in The True Gen: An Intimate Portrait of Ernest Hemingway by Those Who Knew Him by Denis Brian.

    Mike Wallace, Co-Editor of 60 Minutes "On two or three occasions, I came very, very close [to suicide]. But, when I got the right help and treatment, I was able to put that behind me....There's nothing, repeat, nothing to be ashamed of when you're going through a depression. If you get help, the chances of your licking it are really good….[Having battled depression] I'm more compassionate, I'm more understanding and, ultimately, my life has been a lot fuller because I experienced this," he says in an interview with CBSCares.

    Dave Matthews, chart-topping musician, composer: "I was depressed. It was not a good time for me," he told Rolling Stone magazine. "I was feeling remarkably alone… I don't want to be someone who writes about how sad I am, I'd rather write…with some sort of strength. Otherwise, I don't think there's any gift - or offering - being made. I would like to be an inspiring force." A new album, with an entirely new sound, essentially saved Dave's life; he finally felt good about what he'd accomplished.

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Garland

    Judy Garland, singer, Oscar-winning actress: Performing from the age of two, she starred in countless musical films and thrilled audiences with her live performances. She led a life of great highs and deep lows; through it all though, her inestimable talent shown.

    William Styron, Pulitzer Prize winning novelist: After being fired from McGraw-Hill for tossing balloons out an office window, he co-founded the Paris Review. His books included The Confessions of Nat Turner, about black slavery, for which he won the Pulitzer Prize in 1968, and Sophie's Choice, which was made into a powerful and moving film.
    After "having trudged upward out of hell's black depths," he wrote Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness in 1990, an uplifting and probing look at depression. He died in 2006 of pneumonia.


    Famous people with Anxiety Disorders ...continued


    Related articles
    Hollywood and mental health
    By the numbers: Mental health statistics
    An Unquiet Mind: A Memoir of Moods and Madness
    For more, visit the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
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    Post by ziggy Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:45 pm

    I think Robin Williams and Jim Carrey would have been juiced with Ritalin and never developed their comedic genius; definitely, definitely, yeah, definitely.
    ericclimbs
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    Post by ericclimbs Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:02 pm

    Here's an interesting, recently published, article.
    "Liberalism, atheism, male sexual exclusivity linked to IQ:"
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html
    claudicici
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    Post by claudicici Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:44 am

    Paximus wrote:One of my favorite areas of study and something I did my Masters Thesis work on is the link between genuis and mental illness.

    Discuss...


    http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020422222106data_trunc_sys.shtml
    Link Between Creative Genius And Mental Illness Established
    by Kate Melville

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Stressedfella


    For decades, scientists have known that eminently creative individuals have a much higher rate of manic depression, or bipolar disorder, than does the general population. But few controlled studies have been done to build the link between mental illness and creativity. Now, Stanford researchers Connie Strong and Terence Ketter, MD, have taken the first steps toward exploring the relationship.
    Using personality and temperament tests, they found healthy artists to be more similar in personality to individuals with manic depression than to healthy people in the general population. "My hunch is that emotional range, having an emotional broadband, is the bipolar patient's advantage," said Strong. "It isn't the only thing going on, but something gives people with manic depression an edge, and I think it's emotional range."
    Strong is a research manager in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science's bipolar disorders clinic and a doctoral candidate at the Pacific Graduate School. She is presenting preliminary results during a poster presentation today (May 21) at the annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association Meeting in Philadelphia.
    The current study is groundbreaking for psychiatric research in that it used separate control groups made up of both healthy, creative people and people from the general population.
    Researchers administered standard personality, temperament and creativity tests to 47 people in the healthy control group, 48 patients with successfully treated bipolar disorder and 25 patients successfully treated for depression. She also tested 32 people in a healthy, creative control group. This group was comprised of Stanford graduate students enrolled in prestigious product design, creative writing and fine arts programs, including Stegner Fellows in writing, students in the interdisciplinary Joint Program in Design from the Department of Mechanical Engineering and studio arts master's students from the Department of Art & Art History. All subjects were matched for age, gender, education and socioeconomic status.
    Preliminary analysis showed that people in the control group and recovered manic depressives were more open and likely to be moody and neurotic than healthy controls. Moodiness and neuroticism are part of a group of characteristics researchers are calling "negative-affective traits" which also include mild, nonclinical forms of depression and bipolar disorder.
    Though the data are preliminary, they provide a roadmap for psychiatric researchers looking to solve the genius/madness paradox depicted in the movie A Beautiful Mind, which tells the story of Nobel Laureate John Nash. The existing data need further review, Strong said. "And, we need to expand this to other groups," he said. How mood influences the performance of artists and genius scientists will be the subject of future research at Stanford. "We need to better understand the emotional side of what they do," Strong said.
    ....it took scientists decades to figure that out ? Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" 418352 ...and they still don't understand the emotional side of what they do???....now I'm going to spend the next decades trying to figure out what there is that's so hard to understand.why don't they have the mad scientists figure that one out?
    anyways don't mean to rant about scientists and I'm sure not all scientist are the same but we have a Lunar & planetary convention this week so this place is full of scientists and I'm having a hard time explaining simple things to them...it's like talking to an automated phone system I keep trying to find the option to talk to a live operator.why are the smartest people so dense at times?
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    Post by Percy Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm

    claudicici wrote:
    Paximus wrote:One of my favorite areas of study and something I did my Masters Thesis work on is the link between genuis and mental illness.

    Discuss...


    http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020422222106data_trunc_sys.shtml
    Link Between Creative Genius And Mental Illness Established
    by Kate Melville

    Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" Stressedfella


    For decades, scientists have known that eminently creative individuals have a much higher rate of manic depression, or bipolar disorder, than does the general population. But few controlled studies have been done to build the link between mental illness and creativity. Now, Stanford researchers Connie Strong and Terence Ketter, MD, have taken the first steps toward exploring the relationship.
    Using personality and temperament tests, they found healthy artists to be more similar in personality to individuals with manic depression than to healthy people in the general population. "My hunch is that emotional range, having an emotional broadband, is the bipolar patient's advantage," said Strong. "It isn't the only thing going on, but something gives people with manic depression an edge, and I think it's emotional range."
    Strong is a research manager in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science's bipolar disorders clinic and a doctoral candidate at the Pacific Graduate School. She is presenting preliminary results during a poster presentation today (May 21) at the annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association Meeting in Philadelphia.
    The current study is groundbreaking for psychiatric research in that it used separate control groups made up of both healthy, creative people and people from the general population.
    Researchers administered standard personality, temperament and creativity tests to 47 people in the healthy control group, 48 patients with successfully treated bipolar disorder and 25 patients successfully treated for depression. She also tested 32 people in a healthy, creative control group. This group was comprised of Stanford graduate students enrolled in prestigious product design, creative writing and fine arts programs, including Stegner Fellows in writing, students in the interdisciplinary Joint Program in Design from the Department of Mechanical Engineering and studio arts master's students from the Department of Art & Art History. All subjects were matched for age, gender, education and socioeconomic status.
    Preliminary analysis showed that people in the control group and recovered manic depressives were more open and likely to be moody and neurotic than healthy controls. Moodiness and neuroticism are part of a group of characteristics researchers are calling "negative-affective traits" which also include mild, nonclinical forms of depression and bipolar disorder.
    Though the data are preliminary, they provide a roadmap for psychiatric researchers looking to solve the genius/madness paradox depicted in the movie A Beautiful Mind, which tells the story of Nobel Laureate John Nash. The existing data need further review, Strong said. "And, we need to expand this to other groups," he said. How mood influences the performance of artists and genius scientists will be the subject of future research at Stanford. "We need to better understand the emotional side of what they do," Strong said.
    ....it took scientists decades to figure that out ? Genius -- discuss geniuses, the nature of genius, and techniques to unlock you "inner genius" 418352 ...and they still don't understand the emotional side of what they do???....now I'm going to spend the next decades trying to figure out what there is that's so hard to understand.why don't they have the mad scientists figure that one out?
    anyways don't mean to rant about scientists and I'm sure not all scientist are the same but we have a Lunar & planetary convention this week so this place is full of scientists and I'm having a hard time explaining simple things to them...it's like talking to an automated phone system I keep trying to find the option to talk to a live operator.why are the smartest people so dense at times?

    I had a chemistry professor like that, the guy was a fucking genius on all levels but he couldnt do the simplest of shit. It was comical. Einstein was the same way from all accounts, he was brilliant but he couldnt find his own car in the parking lot or even take the time to comb his hair.
    There is more there than meets the eye for sure. I know exactly the kind youre talking about.
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    Post by ziggy Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:29 pm

    I was married to that type - absent minded professor Smile

    I knew this President once, he was brilliant, a true genius; but he couldn't use the English Language very well and couldn't really pronounce "nuclear"....

    I kid, I kid (hee hee)
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    Post by Guest Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:15 pm

    I am in no way saying my son is a genius, but he is very, very smart. Since the 4th grade he has tested out at college level performance in math. He performs very, very high academically. He's really a whiz in a lot of different areas. He has impressed a lot of very smart people in various fields.

    But the kid would die his life depended on having to find his way out of a wet paper bag. He his ability to logically figure out ordinary things is ZERO. It is very aggravating. Sometimes he even says, "God, how can I be so stupid," when the way to do something simple is finally pointed out to him. He just can't "see it."
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    Post by claudicici Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:52 pm

    lol,that's exactly what I'm talking about....it took me about 20 minutes to convince this guy that driving THROUGH a shopping mall to get to his destination is impossible and to drive all the way around it instead of just going the way I showed him to go would'nt make any sense....
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    Post by Percy Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:27 am

    The Kay wrote:I am in no way saying my son is a genius, but he is very, very smart. Since the 4th grade he has tested out at college level performance in math. He performs very, very high academically. He's really a whiz in a lot of different areas. He has impressed a lot of very smart people in various fields.

    But the kid would die his life depended on having to find his way out of a wet paper bag. He his ability to logically figure out ordinary things is ZERO. It is very aggravating. Sometimes he even says, "God, how can I be so stupid," when the way to do something simple is finally pointed out to him. He just can't "see it."

    The greatest curse of genius is the complete inability to have any common sense at all, its actually fascinaing on many levels but yes, frustratng when you live with them, my dad is one and drove off everyday with his brief case on top of his car with me running down the street chasing after him to flag him down LOL. He wasnt a scenitist or anything special just a retired marine who opened his own barber shop but a freakin genius like few I have ever known and extremely absent mind in many ways.


    Last edited by Paximus on Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by Guest Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:39 am

    Paximus wrote:
    The Kay wrote:I am in no way saying my son is a genius, but he is very, very smart. Since the 4th grade he has tested out at college level performance in math. He performs very, very high academically. He's really a whiz in a lot of different areas. He has impressed a lot of very smart people in various fields.

    But the kid would die his life depended on having to find his way out of a wet paper bag. He his ability to logically figure out ordinary things is ZERO. It is very aggravating. Sometimes he even says, "God, how can I be so stupid," when the way to do something simple is finally pointed out to him. He just can't "see it."

    The greatest curse of genius is the complete inability to have any common sense at al, its actually fascinaing on many levels but yes, frustratng when you live with them, my dad is one nd drove off everyday with his brief case on top of his care with me running down the street chasin after him to flag him down LOL. He wasnt a scenitist or anything special just a retired marine who opened his own barber shop but a freakin genius like few I have ever known and extremely absent mind in many ways.

    The other day my son (who is 12) was putting on a shirt that had just come out of the dryer. One of the sleeves was turned inside out. He could not figure out how to put it on because "the hole was gone." I gave him five minutes to come up with an answer on his own, but he was just baffled. :shock:
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    Post by dangrsmind Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:58 am

    I don't think that's uncommon at all. All of the really smart people I know are challenged in many other areas, often socially, and it is sometimes a very big problem for them. One of my oldest friends who is a genius on several levels is going through a nasty divorce right now for this exact reason. Luckily no kids involved.

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