GENERAL OPINIONS

I used to be a member of vampirefreaks way way back in there start up days ,It was only a chat room app on a server from multicity. I remember when they first started the forum . I think I even may be a member there now but havent tried to sign in to see.
Not everyone who goes there is a evil and sick really ,At first it was a bunch of people showing off various artwork . I met alot of fun people there and wouldnt judge the whole forum to be sick people. The owner of the forum has put alot of time into it. I was not nor have i ever been a horrorcore fan, emo or gothic.
Some people would say people who read about crime everyday are bound to commit one. We read about murder cases and serial killers and stuff sometimes i wish i had never read.I can tell people I am talking to which serial killer they are talking about after "that guy who" .Does that mean I am bound to serial kill?
Are any of us here? If someone did would the whole forum be labeled? I know it is hard not to judge but just because the girl was a member there does mean she still cant think this crime is sick and wonder what the h@!!l is wrong with people. JMO

That's true and I hear ya. It just seemed so ironic coming from site that perpetuates the dark side of life. I imagine them all wishing and pretending they were vampires or something, buying into the fantasies created by Ann Rice and the new Twilight series etc.

How can I distinguish that from what we do here? Dunno. I know I'm here because murder and child abuse and abduction insults my value of life. I don't like to see these things happen and it's so bizarre that a human can do these things to other humans that I have to find out why and know that someone is paying the price for the evil deeds they do. I'm also intensly interested in the legal process from start to finish. I would love nothing more than to be the one to send them away for the DP or for life.

Life should be a cherished wonderful thing that is not taken away. I may be here, but in my normal world I don't dress in a dark way, my ipod has as much KC and The Sunshine Band as Clapton and it's just a different way of living that isn't 90% really effed up like most of these people who are into some heavy dark stuff. Then again, I haven't been molested, abused, addicted etc. so perhaps I have no "need" for it. ???????? I WISH these depressed people could see that life is never so bad as they perceive and that they DO have control over their happiness. I'm sad that so many people don't get that and them delving into Vampirism and Horrorcore isn't exactly the same thing as Tony Robbins k? I get that we all have a dark side, but those who feed theirs, to me, my opinion only, those people are a drain on us all.

....I'm glad ziggy that you havn't been through any horror in your life it seems but a lot of us have....a family member that I loved very much killed himself when I was 10,I was raped by a married u.s. army sergeant when I was 13...and after that I found comfort in metal,in accepting "dark" stuff as part of life,I don't want to be a rain on anyone's parade but I'm in this because I also just like you believe we are in control of our own happiness and we have to control our emotions and rage and never let it out on others...but i think it's important to find out what is going on in people's head's that commit this stuff so it can be prevented,and it needs to start early,I'm not that smart and i don't have all that education a lot of you guys have and everything i post just comes from my heart even though it's a dark place at times...people just need to learn to be strong and deal with it...and if "dark" stuff helps,so be it...I love Marilyn Manson,btw,thanks danger for posting that video.....and i don't think it's fair for people to post how sorry they feel for the boy that was at that festival because they don't know what kind of experience he had there....if his parents love him it could have been positive,he could have had the time of his life....

...maybe the "immersing in dark stuff" has to do with pain as a relief,danger and paximus talked about that earlier in the thread...and it really made me think,i used to cut when i was in my teens and headbanging really works too,I don't know...but back to sam i feel as though he had rage in him for a really long time,that x-box profile where he states that is from 2005....i think since parents aren't doing their job anymore,schools should..why aren't there classes on empathy and anger management and stuff like that starting in elementary?...who cares about math?...needing a calculator never killed anyone...

Anyway, I wish parents would do their jobs, I really do. It seems the value of children has gone down the drain recently and people are too selfish and/or ignorant to take the job of forming another human being seriously. I'm not a fan of organized religion and I have no idea what I am in that sense, a Buddistian - can't be a real Buddist cuz I kill bugs and don't feel any remorse whatsoever ~ and also support the DP. But, I think the teachings have great merit.

At least churches used to be a place for people to learn good morals and values in a setting other than the home and people would come together to construct a mechanism for accountability to one another and their community. That doesn't happen anymore.

I know it's OT, but Sam's parents probably did a lousy freaking job and Emma's probably did much better, and Mel, who said on one of her VF profiles that she loved her parents more than anything and yet we've got three kids into the same painful and dark stuff. I find that fascinating too.

Its really not the pain per se nor the headbanging, its the FOCUSING on SOMETHING and that thing ONLY that allows the mind to enter that higher state of awareness where everything goes away and you find peace, even if it is just a brief moment. This is why I study Buddhism, it is all about training your mind to focus on the NOW, instead of wasting all your time with the regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, focus on the NOW and really live in the MOMENT and you will find yourself much more at peace and less divided. That is why things like pain can work in this manner, it immediately takes your mind off everything and redirects it to the pain to the now, to THIS MOMENT, its a quick way to a temporary enlightened state, the objective is to try and find a way to stay in that mental state all the time, not easy.

I dont think kids have changed much, in the 50s Elvis was devil music, then it was the Beatles and Kiss and Judas Priest in my time in the 80s, we were out screwin drinkin and doin drugs and up to no good back then too just like most of them now, I turned out fine, some didnt, same as today.

Pax and Danger should write a book about this case. I was sifting through the search warrants, UHghen (as Forrest Gump would say) and I noticed a thumb drive with the University logo on it...now what if Debra was researching and it's all in her computer and files? Her angle would make the most incredibly interesting story. I think that's why I'm drawn to it, you have the professor of criminal studies, the Pastor for gosh sakes, the beautiful but troubled self proclaimed Satanist daughter, online hook up, horrorcore, the Syko Sam alter ego, the SKR/WIR connection and mass murder. Geez. No wonder. But seriously, someone is going to write this book. You have a head start. Of course some people squirm at the thought of profiting from a tragedy, but you could always donate a portion of profits to some worthy cause like Rimer, LOL, JK.

Originally Posted by Wes I have no problem with someone who wants to spread awareness regarding occults. But if he's just trying to make a buck off a horrible crime like this, then that's another story. But I do think I saw where the seminar was 'free'. As for his 'expertise', I'd have to research him more. But I'm sure much of his presentation is rather basic and probably just touches the surface.

The question is, what kind of awareness is he spreading? Is he really teaching people about the occult and what it is or is he spreading hysteria, because, from his own Christian fundamentalist point of view, he is unable to understand that NOT everything occult related has to do with darkness, demons and that which is evil. In fact most of what is really considered to be 'occult' is not dark or evil in any way.

Buddhism is certainly considered an occult philosophy and Star Wars is an occult film. Are these things dark, evil and something to be feared?

As you may or may not know, occult simply means 'hidden'(as in existing beyond the 5 known human senses) and a student of it is one who seeks 'knowledge of the hidden.' In this sense any religion that seeks out gods, angels, demons etc is occultic by definition, even Christianity, most especially any variety of Christianity that puts an emphasis on "The Holy Spirit," speaking in tongues and performing baptisms, all of which are ancient 'occult rituals,' which themselves even predate Christianity.

My point is, occult science/philosophy is not a bad thing, it can be used by people with bad intentions but thats true of anything isnt it?

I think people like him serve to simply confuse people more rather than educate them and raise awarness about what occult science/philosophy really is.


And for the record I have nothing against Christian fundamentalists, however, it is because they are fundamentalist that they are unable to understand things like occult science and philosophy. Religious fundamentalism does not leave much room for tolerance of other belief systems by its very nature of being religious fundamentalism. Rimer is a Christian Fundamentalist and therefore I suggest it would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for him to really speak obejctively and raise awarness about what the occult really is. In fact I have heard him refer in general sweeping terms to the occult as "devil worship." I can assure you as a Buddhist I am not worshiping any devils yet Buddhism is very much an occult science and philosophy.



ETA: I dont think the occult played any role in this crime personally but I have no problem with looking in to that possibility. In all my years involved in occult study I have experienced things that defy all reasonable and logical explanation, so sure, it is certainly possible something like demonic possession or a ritual gone bad could be the reason this happened but I dont think Rimer would be the person who would be able to uncover that, in fact anything short of flying a Shaman/witch doctor in from deep in the Amazon rain forest probably wouldnt result in us getting any answers.

Further I do not consider Sam or Shrim to be 'occultists' as I have said before. IMO the perfect model of an 'occultist' would be the character Yoda in the film Star Wars. He would be what is certainly considered a master or adept and his Jedi students 'initiates.' The reason I say that is because Yoda had a knowledge of both paths, right and left, light and dark, and understood the importance of a BALANCE BETWEEN THE TWO forces as opposed to simply dabbling in to one side or the other which is what hacks like Shrim are in to, from the evidence I have seen. These are not occultists, they are idiots playing with fire with no regard or respect as to the consequences of such.

Edited to add that I do take issue with his Yin/Yang symbol as being a red flag or something.

OK well I'm going out on a limb here and saying that after reading Rimer's course description etc. I don't see anything wrong with what he does and as Dangrsmind and Paximus have demonstrated, being an expert in the occult might take several lifetimes to achieve because it seems to be like Photoshop, more levels to it than you can ever discover.

That being the case, his simplistic views are easier for the average joe to digest. I can easily imagine the cops finding 3 anhilated corpses in a bedroom filled with satanic images and probably SKR necklaces on bodies with upside down crosses...well you get the picture. They call the guy and then likely realize later is was the teenage daughter's little sub-culture thing and work from that angle.

He certainly can't impart every angle of the occult in a seminar, nor has he gone as far as he probably should in his research, however it seems plausible that the knowledge he imparts to those who are completely clueless to the various degrees of satanism or occult followings is substantial enough to bring more awareness and then they can take it upon themselves, if so inclined, to dig deeper and google the stuff.

We've been critical of parents not doing their jobs and yet we want to criticize parents for trying to become aware of teenage dabbling. I think the dabbling is like dangr's reference to drugs; some can't handle it and it becomes more than a fad or phase.

I will applaud parents for attempting to shield their children from harmful outside influences and better for them to be a little paranoid than with their heads in the sand.

As for the community, I'm sure they are freaked out by this murder in their safe little town. They have a need to know now. They want to be informed, not ignorant. Will Rimer's talk give them anything? It may. It might not give them everythingbut it could make them feel a little more in control, which can reduce anxiety.

Parents may at least sit up and take notice of some things that may have flown right over their heads before and it could make a kid realize he/she is loved and cared about, even if it's a pain in the ass that his/her parents are now paranoid.

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS The horrorcore/occult and all the characters that go along with it would definitely be a part of anything that I would write and would further be the only reason I would do anything fictional about it, just to further add some more interesting horrorcore and occult twists to the story, but if done right it really doesnt need any more twists as they are all there already.

I agree. I'd definitely buy your book.
Heck, this thread is better than a lot of the books I've read lately!

WS thread 3 post 14:


I was wondering about sam's drug habit's as well...he didn't seem to have as much of a problem as his sister.I keep wondering about way back how it all started.According to syko mom she was super protective and took a job at the school to be close to him but sarah paints a totally different picture.syko mom smoking bowl after bowl in front of a muted TV,she didn't seem to give a damn about those kids,just didn't want to be bothered...gave them weed,took their food for weed,basically left sam to rot in his room,didn't even care if he showered...I could imagine him staying in there to avoid confrontation,his sister didn't seem tobe too kind to him either...I'm not feeling sorry for him,I'm just trying to understand....maybe the whole involvment with wicked intend and skr was positive at first...it gave him something to live for...i bet he had huge expectations about meeting emma...i can also see him doing the whole rap thing to impress her,to impress his dad...but I think we all agree he sucked bad at it...
anyways I think when he thought emma was a cheater just like his mom he just freaked,i don't think he 's a psychopath,just majorly disturbed...I also think he called to cops for a half hearted alibi but I really doubt he cared much whether or not he would get caught at that point.I do believe the murders satisfied him which would explain his calm and almost content demeanor when he was taken in by le.I keep thinking of what the original syko sam,david berkowitz said in an interview"the tension,the desire to kill a woman had built up in me to such explosive proportions that when I finally pulled the trigger ,all the pressures,all the tensions,hatred,had just vanished,disappeared.I was literally singing on my way home"

WS thread 3 post 32:

I haven't seen any evidence of harder drugs being used at STFW, just some weed and alcohol. But you know it's an underground event and I find that a bit hard to believe actually. We know that McCroskey's sister used a variety of chemical additives for example. She's reportedly not doing that sort of thing any more BTW, I'm just saying it seems likely that other drugs were used by some of the attendees of this event. Comparing his YouTube postings to his sister's, Sam seems like he was more of a drinker than anything else. Hard to say I guess.

WS thread 3 post 53:

He was already easily placed at the scene of the crime at the time of the murders. He probably made a quick and panicked plan before fleeing the house to divert future attention somewhere else, a possible unknown person he heard in or around the house at the time he left.

I think he was on poorhouse road most likely because he never had driven in the area in his life. If not that it may possibly have been as you say to get rid of evidence, maybe they found the murder weapon there, who knows. I think theres an outside chance he was scouting the area for a place to dump the bodies before heading for the airport but he had to ditch that plan after getting his car stuck. I think its obvious he was trying to avoid being caught.

I think blame will be put on a lot of things to try and avoid a death sentence. I think blame will be put on his upbringing, his heavy interest in horrorcore, the crowd he hung around with, possible drug use. Im guessing with drugs at worst he only had marijuana in his system. These days though people will even try to blame anti-depressants for a murder they committed. I dont think any of those excuses will work but you never know with any jury, some may feel sorry for him and buy what the defense is selling.

WS thread 3 post 54:
he liked to jog

maybe in his early elementary school years only?

mercurynews.com/news/ci_13413230

Quote:

In high school, Sarah and her brother were teased and picked on at school, mainly because of their weight and "ginger" hair.

WS thread 3 post 59:

IIRC, Sam did not have a driver's license; he had a California ID card.

Early on we were speculating why he would take the pastor's car and leave the van. Perhaps the van was low on gas, or he couldn't find the keys?


ETA by me: We now know he did also have his high school ID which thought odd at the time, for his age.

Originally Posted by AndresEscobar I agree mostly. Except, the attorney doesn't really have the final say about whether the venue gets changed. The DC sniper kid got the venue change, so I imagine Sam's trial might get moved to the DC burbs area. You gotta realize, though, Sam allegedly did the worst thing you could possibly do: killing young, white women.

And a preacher. And a teacher. And blamed it on Jesus. He came from California to Farmville, Va., met up w/ an underage girl who he met on the internet, is a satanic rapper...it's pretty mind boggling when you think about it. Suicide really. I don't see this kid living through the next decade. I know several people who are normally against the death penalty who want him dead. Unless he pleads guilty and they take it off the table, but this has horrified everyone so badly I don't see them doing that.

They'll have a venue change, but I don't know about to the DC burbs. It is completely different there than any other part of the state (much more liberal) and I think it would be too complicated. I am still thinking VA Beach or Roanoke, mabye Fredricksburg area. It won't matter though, b/c it is all Virginia. Unless something is really screwed up in the trial, he will get the death penalty. I am fairly certain.

No way would I want to be part of this jury. I would never be able to sleep again, if I had to view the evidence.

Like most of you I am just a crime dork too, I really try and get in to the heads of these killers and find out whats going on in there so we can find a way to prevent this stuff in the future. Probably never happen but its an interesting hobby no matter what.

i, too, am Christian. But i also am aware that I am in a forum, and many people from many walks of life are present. The main concern though, is what went on in Sam's life that could have influenced him to snap and do such a brutal murder. He was into Horrorcore music, writing and singing of some of the very things he did to these people in Farmville. Sometimes, offensive or not, to get to the bottom of things to try to understand what ticks in a mind, is what a person has to get through,,, all the stuff,,, offensive and/or not offensive. As people from various beliefs are in agreement ( i do believe from reading all these posts) , that what in the world happened to Sam to come to this path in his young life?

Originally Posted by AndresEscobar I think You, me, ziggy, Dngrs, claudicici, Tapu, maunsapt, Blou and anyone else should go to the next horrorcore event and infiltrate their little clique. We could co author a little piece like this.

I used to go hang out with my local Goth kids on a regular basis. They lost their venue a while back and I've haven't gone to the new spot because I don't care for the place.

Most of the kids there were very creative and generally a lot of fun to hang out with. My friends and I looked NOTHING like any of them, which meant that some of them just ignored us. We are a lot older, which does make a difference too. I never had anything but a good time and never a negative reaction to my presence.

I knew several of the kids through other connections and I also knew several people who were much older than most of the kids in the scene but still very much a part of it. Those older guys tended to be musicians or involved in promotion and they also generally played the part of responsible adults who were supportive of kids who might not encounter that level of support anywhere else in their lives. There has been a few questions raised in this forum about adults in the scene which actually tend slightly towards accusation, but if they are anything like the older goths scenesters, that isn't necessarily justified.

I find the horrorcore thing to be pretty distasteful in general, but I really wouldn't be surprised to find that it's very much the same as the goth scene. One distinction that I suspect, but don't really have any evidence of is that there may be more of a tendency for the goth kids to be middle/upper class while the horrorcore fans seem to me to be more working class. The ICP wrestling thing makes me suspect that. Horrorcore seems to me like it would appeal to the same demographic as demolition derbies, cage matches, and either lowered Japanese cars with performance robbing accessories bolted on or raised trucks with performance robbing accessories bolted on. Most of the goth kids I've met come from more middle class backgrounds, but that may just be where I live. Anyone got any thoughts or info on that?

I've often wondered if there were a southern variety of horrorcore brewing with Miami Bass, Molly Hatchet, and some Lil Wayne thrown on top of what's there already. If there isn't it may be time for us to hit the studio. I can't think of better way to infiltrate the clique than through the production side. We've got a crack team here that could throw down teh wickedestest of teh wickedest. Just think, we could all be sitting in a hotel room counting stacks of ones someday too!

Originally Posted by Nessa Apparently others are making a connection to Horrorcore on this crime as well. http://siccness.net/content/default/...an-murders.php and http://www.juggalonews.com/index.php...k=view&id=1884

This is actually a classic case of what happens when you put teenagers on selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. I did some work on this in grad school and I will spare you my Tom Cruisesque rant against psychiatric medications but needless to say this young lady's attorney should be using the Prozac Defense. *#*$(#$)#) ruined a few more lives here.

The **** says right on the bottle that it may cause increased suicidal and homicidal thoughts especially in teenagers yet they hand this stuff out to kids like its candy.

I wonder if Sam was on SSRI medication?

Originally Posted by Nessa But then what do you propose we do with very troubled children/teens? I agree that psychotropic drugs should be used with discretion and caution in this age group, however, the black box warning is explained in great detail to the patient and legal guardian before it is prescribed. Informed consent obtained. If you have a child/teen who is greatly disturbed, you can make recommendations and stress counselling, but if the patient doesn't follow up with the counselling, then what? Only if you have significant reason can you legally have them committed for a short time (legal rights comes in big time)...then what? The psychiatric community also needs the cooperation of the patient and guardian in these cases which doesn't always happen either. There are more kids these days who are mentally/emotionally unstable than you would care to know about which is horribly sad. Its a tough situation for all concerned.

so very true Nessa. I work with some emotional disturbed students, and have seen what they go through, and insurance (some have it, most dont), the amount of time the spend in intreatment care and/or outpatient therapy. some families don't follow through with the follow up. some kids are removed, into foster care, so much bureacracy (sp) and such in getting the right kind of help. unfortunately, its a rare situation when all is a win-win. ... I have younger students that are not even in their teens that have had to take these kinds of meds, and its a constant battle as what works, what doesnt, how long to take them, ah, the list can go on. indeed, its a tough situation

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