GENERAL OPINIONS

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS I have always liked the irony of the non conforming conformists and thats what the HC kids remind me of.

I think it’s hysterical that ‘kids’ wishing to be unique and special individuals end up doing something like mega-piercing, or goth-style or HCR. Why? Because ‘everyone’ in their group does it, and they are no longer unique!

I totally agree,even though you are using the term "some of them are way over the top"...in your opinion....again it's just a matter of opinion....
there are countless books written where the author uses "I" to tell the story but it's not things the author would actually do ,it's story telling,that's the same in music, "horrorcore" or whatever other genre,...
...and I'm also wondering why some people get so upset or repulsed about stuff that I like and I get repulsed by stuff other people like.....I guess it's like if you've never been close to something or experienced something you're not going to understand it,same with prejudism I guess.....or let's say people who share the same disease ,like cancer or something,it makes them feel better to get together and talk about their experiences,but people who never had it would be upset to sit around and talk about suffering and pain cos they never had to....

This was also in Killa Satan's pix.
A baby's onesie decorated with upside=down crosses??? ABSOLUTELY. REVOLTING. ....have to wonder what's in the kid's bottles: __________________

Would it be okay with you if the onesie just had one right side up cross on it? Or how about a big star of David?

They make these....

Originally Posted by Wes Some people shouldn't be allowed to procreate.

Really?

You think the parents should be arrested and sterilized or imprisoned for having children just because of this onesie?

Be careful what you wish for.

Originally Posted by claudicici Thank you ,dangr,I also saw one that said "I keep my guns and my bible you can have your change", on a BABY's onesie,I'm not kidding....

No doubt some of the Christians are just as nutty as the Satanists. I am Jewish and I see it in Judaism too, some of the more radical groups in Israel are just as fanatic if not more than any radical Islamic terrorist group

Originally Posted by tapu I was always sort of unconsciously wary of the politicization of the baby, too. Like, I never paraded him around in a rainbow onesie. Not even in P-Town. Actually, though... that might be my instinct NOT to conform.

My story is a bit different because it was in the context of other things that went beyond just being taken to a peace rally as a kid. I was in "religious" school at the time, which seemed to mostly consist of showing us Holocaust images and reading from Meyer Kahane's "Never Again". I never remeber God even being mentioned. I was eight or nine at this time.

My parents took me to a peace rally and march against the Vietnam war which ended with people being arrested and taken away in handcuffs in unmarked grey buses...

Scary **** for a little kid.

My sister and her partner recently took their son to an anti-prop 8 rally here in California and gave him a sign to carry in his stroller. He was 2 years old at the time. I didn't support the proposition, but you know, hire a sitter or something.

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS Well Christians do canabalize their god and drink his blood. I dont mean to be offensive there are many fine Christian people in the world but all religions have their zealots and radicals.

Many people have died in wars started by religious zealots of various flavors. Also, there was that good ole Spanish Inquisition.

Wes, the issue of ritual sacrifice is not as simple as you make it out to be here, and it is widely debated in modern day Satanism. Most Satanists that I have read do not sacrifice "virgins" except in the metaphorical sense.

There are some groups that have been tied to disappearances and possible ritual murders, i.e. the Order of Nine Angles, but most of the people that call themselves Satanists do not engage in such practices.

But then again LaVey stated that there were conditions under which human sacrifice was acceptable for example if the person to be sacrificed was annoying enough. Just one example of why I tell people to stay away from LaVey generally speaking....

FWIW.

See http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Satanism/00000016.htm and Wikipedia (Links)
Order_of_Nine_Angles

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS Well Christians do canabalize their god and drink his blood. I dont mean to be offensive there are many fine Christian people in the world but all religions have their zealots and radicals.

Does it scare you that people need a book or religion to be good? How come some people have to have a threat of lightning on them if they don't be nice? Shouldn't you be good anyway? Seems like they should make the right choice from the heart, not because of the God of choice. What if the Bible did not exist? Would all these people with no direction be out of control? Or would they listen to the heart and everything be fine?

Good questions. I have spent most of my life trying to find the source of evil in the world to no avail. I think in many cases religion may be more of a problem than a solution but if it helps someone then I am all for it. I know alot of recovering addicts who depend on the bible and a belief in a higher power to remain clean so if thats what works for them thats ok.

Man I wouldn't know where to start if I wanted to really go into depth with how I feel on this subject. My origins are from a small southern Baptist town and most of my friends and all of my immediate family are Christians. Some more religious than others. I lean more towards considering myself an Agnostic rather than an Atheist for a couple of reasons I won't go into here. I think some of the most generous and trustworthy people I know are old fashioned Christians. I always respect them and I never let anyone know my religious or political stance. When in Rome do as the Romans is certainly my mentality. I’m very happy go lucky and I want everyone to believe in what they need to as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else and it makes their life easier. If that’s believing in Allah ,the Holy Trinity, or whatever. I’m jealous because I can’t be at peace as easily as some religious people. But I also believe that organized religion has been one of if not the biggest cause of violence and murder in history. I can understand people having concerns with others who do not follow a religion which teaches morals and responsibilities. Some people reason that if people aren’t worried about any repercussions in an afterlife that they lack motivation to keep them from committing violent acts. With that being said I don't think having a "book" is going to keep anybody honest except for people who already conscious about how they already act. Hence I don't think that the Bible, Koran or any other book has truly changed a substantial percentage of people who wouldn't have cared otherwise about how they act, especially violent people like murderers, child molesters, armed robbers, etc.....I’m more conscious of violent people who do jump up and “find Jesus” all of a sudden. I don’t feel they’re always mentally stable. Just my humble opinion here of course. I'm glad I didn't really get started I could waste my whole day on this topic.

Originally Posted by Wes Some people shouldn't be allowed to procreate.

Khemi is a good person and is no longer a Apostle or associated with anyone in SKR. From what i know she is a really good mother so please dont judge her on something she made for her baby a year ago

For me high school was the usual classic rock (and the not so usual like the very under-appreciated King Crimson), hard rock like Maiden, Sabbath, Ozzy, and Priest, that sort of thing. In college I added Slayer, Metallica, Testament, the heavier stuff, some Gangsta Rap and then, upon suddenly (hint hint) seeing things in a wider brighter light, I moved into mellow stuff like Reggae and the Grateful Dead. After that I was turned on to Punk and got into that for a long time eventually moving to Techno, Ambient, and such alternative bands as Modest Mouse and Built To Spill. My tastes run the eclectic gamut from very dark and brooding to spiritual and enlightened. I love all this stuff still to this day.
What I'm trying to say is, in following this discussion, I have never had the displeasure of having to hear such terrible music. I mean forget the lyrics (whether they are offensive to one or not) -- I'm just talking about those lame beats and obvious cheap computer synth generated music. Now any dork with a computer and a social networking site can make sh*tty music and find plenty of other sad people to tell him its great. Do any of these kids know how to play an actual instrument????
Disclaimer: the above rant is, of course, just my opinion. If you dig the Horrorcore you have every right to tell me what I can do with my opinion.

Originally Posted by Sally Trueheart Been reading along, with little time to spare..but can so can some one 'splain to me how the Raver's, the Emo's, amd the Juggalettes/Jugalloes differ?-- Paximus Raver-- Alcohol shunned for the most part. Ecstatic dancing for hours on end provided by djs. Music is continuous, very positive and extremely loud. Energy drinks, Ecstacy drug of choice. Major danger: dancing too much, sending electrolytes out of whack by too much dancing/ water, and of course hearing damage. Frequent Ecstacy use may lead to depression eventually. Typical raver wears clothing all colors of the rainbow, wide legged pants, giant platform shoes, and a pacifier on a necklace. More commonly people wear silly costume- like accessories such as a hat with neon feather trim. Sometimes candy necklaces around the neck. This may be connected to the strichhanine in the drugs that causes them to grind their teeth. Raves are pretty expensive, complicated to find, and requiring a long time commitment (dance for 8 plus hours, then sleep the day away). Emos-- A term that has a tinge of derision-- "he's/ she's so emo." May be a short term identity. Weepy, sad, tragic, sensitive, depressed, etc. Boys are frequently emo, unlike in the Goth scene which was mainly girls. People dress fairly conventionally but in dark colors, in contrast to the Goth scene of the 90's which was referencing victoriana- lace, satin, velvet, bodices, etc. Art making and Singing valued. Juggalettes/ Juggalloes- Fans of Insane Clown Posse. This is new to me too.

Emo kids listen to specific bands too. Weezer, My Chemical Romance, and many more...I don't follow this very much.

Identifying characteristics:

Ravers: "candy", phat pants (old school), the "raver heart", furry leggings, neon fishnet stockings, glow sticks, etc. See also "prostitots"

Emo: black hair hanging across the face, depression, whining, all black clothes

Jugallos/Jugallettes: clown make up, Hatchet man necklace or shirts, "woop woop"

All three groups like to get wasted. And alcohol is much more common at raves now than it used to be for various reasons.

That bit about strychnine in "raver drugs" made me laugh. This is not true, "gurning" is a side effect of the drug itself. Also very few people dance for "8 hours". A typical party starts at 10PM and very very few of them go until 6AM. I don't understand the bit about raves being expensive. Most parties are free or less than $20. If your raves are "expensive" you are doing it wrong.

Also it used to be true that raves were "hard to find" because they were held at secret and illegal locations. This is not true so much anymore, although here in San Francisco due to some recent aggressive enforcement this idea is making a big comeback. The last two "raves" I went to were at well known art warehouses that have had many many parties in them. These locations are the opposite of hard to find, everyone knows where they are, and the hosts often provide shuttle bus services to the location from a nearby parking site.

It might be worth differentiating warehouse parties like this from "renegades" which are generally held outdoors at a location which is revealed only at the last minute to avoid detection.

ETA: BTW "candy" isn't really candy, it is plastic jewelry made by kids in the raver subculture known as "candy kids". People give this away at parties and the most prized candy are not the ones you make yourself but the ones people give you.

PLUR

Originally Posted by dangrsmind You don't think horrorcore songs contain an element of humor or sarchasm? I think a lot of people thought Sam's music was funny and not to be taken seriously right up until he killed four people. How about this track? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDEWsOGlnD8 Come on now this song is clearly a joke and the way he delivers the vocal, I have to say that I actually think it's pretty damn funny. Sam was doing the same thing, just not nearly as well as Mars and without someone talented like McNastee producing the beats. How about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2VZtpCFBUg Come on sing along! "I'd grab a clip or two, load it up and then I'm cool..." ETA: I think there should be a Barney the Evil Dinosaur remix of Shooting Spree

I got a crazy idea to go back to college a few years ago after having been kicked out back in the 80's. I returned to Va Tech and was a student in the architecture school there when 32 people were shot in a building adjacent to the building where my studio was.

I missed the immediate shock since I had gone home the previous friday and stayed there for an event on Monday evening. I was in a coffee shop at home when I got the first of several emails warning of shootings on campus. Classes were cancelled for the rest of the week, so I didn't return until the following Saturday.

The night I got back to Blacksburg, I went to the building where the shootings had occurred, since I knew I would have no choice but to deal with it. There was a huge area closed off with police tape and a 24 hour police guard which stayed for months, but there was a couple standing just inside of it holding each other. I could see other people standing in the shadows all around and I heard something I've never heard before, which was the sound of a mostly unseen crowd softly crying.

There's just no way to describe the devastation that shooting caused. My French professor from the year before was killed. My next door neighbor lost a very close friend and several other people I know lost friends. Everyone was in shock and almost no one said anything about what had happened, so it was very difficult to know who had lost friends, but I know that a significant number of people around me had.

That came near the end of a school year that started on day one with an on campus hunt by state police and SWAT teams for a gunman who had escaped from custody the previous evening. He had been taken to the hospital by a police officer officer whose gun he took and then shot as he escaped. He then shot dead another officer who stumbled onto him on a local bike trail and disappeared. I went to campus on the road beside that trail, since I lived near the hospital. I saw a LOT of heavily armed police on my way, but since the local airport is there too, I thought it was just a homeland security training exercise and didn't know there was anything up until someone in the parking lot told me classes were cancelled.

I had a few things to do in my studio, so I went there and then started hearing all the rumors of where the gunman was. People in the building where I was had a range of reaction from perfect calm to severe anxiety but eventually the police warned everyone to leave and we all did. I went back to my apartment which was in a wooded area not far from either the hospital of where the gunman had last been seen and realized as I was driving up that I had left my door unlocked, that I lived in a nearly perfect hiding place, and that it would have been well known as that by locals possibly including that person. I was quite relieved to find my home was empty, but I entered very carefully and looked in all possible hiding places before feeling relaxed. I've never left my home unlocked since that day.

It's going to be a LONG time before I'm ready for any sort of school shooting humor.

edited to add:

Seung-Hui Cho used two guns in his murder spree. One of them was a Glock.

Originally Posted by claudicici ...yes,sid killing nancy is very debatable...I like to think so though,really I don't think he did. ...but i guess the argument is ,is sam going to be "famous"? jimi hendrix jim morrison sid vicious kurt cobain sam mccroskey ??????? come on,these other guys influenced a whole generation,some crappy shirts on cafepress.com are not going to be enough marketing to put this guy anywhere near that category,now if eminem went on a murder spree.......i could see that... well,how about sam becoming famous in the killer category? ted bundy david berkowitch jeffrey dahmer sam mccroskey?????????? nope,he didn't kill enough people in that case and he doesn't stand out.there isn't even much interest in this case,it's not internationally known....now from all the recent things that have happened alicia bustamante might become "famous" because she is so young and a girl and her victim is a child.

You're Sam didn't kill enough people, but there may still be things we don't know. Unless some major new information comes out at his trial, will not be remembered though.

Did Sam want to be famous? If so, are there pictures and/or video like several people have speculated?

Originally Posted by claudicici ....that simplifies the argument....now what is "being crazy"?...could there be like dangrsmind argues actual demonic possessions.....or are those demons,that "being crazy" is it emotions that are within all of us but some people can't handle them,like anger,jealousy,rejection etc.....could those be demons?....I saw an interview with one of the surviving victims of anthony sorrell and she said she saw "the demons in his eyes"..... ....also isn't creativity like music or painting a way to deal with these demons?....isn't that what eminem doing?....I just don't believe that entertainment,music,movies,games etc. can create those demons....it seems to help some with what they're feeling,others it seems to bring out those feelings even more.

I can testify that music plays a big part on being what people would call crazy. When I was into Horrorcore I had many demons, still some today but I keep them at bay easy with not playing music and getting that deep into evil **** like I once played and thought was cool. It is an insvible force out there that you can draw in to youself that will make you do or think of some crazy things... Entertainment, Friends, Music, Drugs, Drinking is what the inner demon or demons feed on in my case.. It make you.... Someone.... it's like having power, magic.... hard to explain or get my point across on the feeling that it brings. I might sound like a lunatic.. but I understand how one can get too deep into this type of lifestyle its easy to get into but hard as hell to get out.. especially if you're a weak person then it will cause destruction as it did with Sam.

Originally Posted by southernvagirl Nativegirl, thanks for this post.....There is but ONE demon, and it is the devil, himself.....He is busy collecting, or trying to collect souls,,,just look at the poor emos on youtube who cut and harm themselves...Last night I had such a heavy heart after watching a few of those vids...I am NOT open for a debate,on Christianity,,,,, but anyone who thinks there is not a heaven and hell in the after life are deluding themselves. I will as always pray for these people and all people , in hopes they find some peace. I so wish these kids coming up today had something Godly and spritual in their lives to give them hope for a new day, instead of dread and loss of hope.....This horrorcore stuff, is the devils work, pure and simple in my book, and when you allow yourself to be mentally and physically involved in this "sick" lifestyle you are inviting the devil on in.....It seems to me, with everything I read,,its about "oneupsmanship",,,,how do these people,,,skr,,,,live daily with all the ugly gore, bloodlust,,and just evil imagerary,,and not think something like this is possible?????

Are you aware that your avatar of two intertwined cats is a version of the Chinese Yin-Yang symbol? According to Don Rimer, that is an occult symbol. Are you inviting the devil in by using this symbol?

Note that the "light" cat has dark eyes, and the "dark" has white eyes. The light contains the seeds of the dark and vice versa.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%B6d

"External chod is to wander in fearful places where there are deities and demons. Internal chod is to offer one's own body as food to the deities and demons. Ultimate chod is to realize the true nature of the mind and cut through the fine strand of hair of subtle ignorance. I am the yogi who has these three kinds of chod practice."

"The truth pervades even the most perverse beliefs and philosophies."
--dangrsmind

No I was not aware...Thanks for enlightenment...I have 3 precious kitties, and that was the only avatar that appealed to me.....I fight the devil every day from seeping into my heart,,,, to not wish the worst on people for the heinous things they do to others...I am not an academic like most of you here, but my grandmother taught me about God and the Bible...IMOO, with out these in my life , I could have gone down a very different road that I ended up on.....Your avatar suits you to a tee.....But MOO,,,is this,,,not everything needs to be delved into way beyond what it really is....

Originally Posted by NativeGirl One thing for sure is the 4 people Sam murdered, will NEVER see another snow.

I was thinking about Emma and Mel today, when it snowed. Sam wiped out two girls that seemed sweet and aspiring, and two middle aged parents that we'd all probably have liked to hang out with. They're just gone.... They were killed in the fall, and now they're gone in winter. No more Xmas, no snow.....

Originally Posted by claudicici But I guess I shouldn't post anything like this since christianity is not debatable

Why isn't it debatable!?
I think we all play nice on this thread, and that's what people do that appreciate each other .... debate and open one's mind to other ideas.

Well, I think Eric was just making the point: Why lament, if you believe someone is in Heaven?

There are a couple of things to say to this: one is what wadahoot and native girl are alluding to, i think-- that one laments the loss of the person from one's own life.

But, Eric, as for what Christians say, I've heard more along these lines than the ones you suggest: "He's in a better place," "She's been called home to Heaven," "We'll all be together on the other side."

I don't think it's inconsistent for Christians to believe that their loved ones go to Heaven, but still to lament their absence "on this side."

(btw, I am not a Christian. Just discussing the logic.)

This post kind of irks me , especially this part :
"I am NOT open for a debate,on Christianity,,,,, but anyone who thinks there is not a heaven and hell in the after life are deluding themselves."

I suggest you not post any statements that you arent "open for debate". It kind of goes against what a forum is about !

I should have said, my own opinion....I guess what I should have said,,,is this,,,MY faith is not open for debate.....I would not try to "push" my beliefs on anyone else,,,I made a statement,,,When people speak so freely about occults, evil music lyrics,,sadistic blood ,gore and such, my heart is heavy that this is so readily accepted. I do not apologise for being who I am...

No need to apologize for being who you are...

But understand that those of us who are not Christians have encountered two different threads of Christianity it seems. One is gracious, forgiving, and focused on helping the less fortunate. It is highly admirable...San Francisco's Reverand Cecil Williams comes to mind. SickTanick mentions that his brother is a "true Christian" in his interview with PiXy.

It is the other thread of Christianity that most of us non-Christians seem to have trouble with. There are those that call themselves Christians that are ready to judge others without ever looking inward at themselves. They judge people for how they dress, the music they listen to, their sexual preferences, etc. In case of any disagreement they always fall back on scripture which of course they quote extensively from, but only selectively, forgetting the bits about turning the other cheek, not casting the first stone, and universal forgiveness. This leads to a pervasive strain of hypocrisy, for example as we see with the various televangelists involved in scandalous relationships against their own professed beliefs.

They often ignore the history of their own traditions and beliefs which seem to be mostly based on taking a book literally despite the facts that this book is known to be a biased translation of a translation of the original texts. It is called the King James Bible for a reason. See also http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

From where I sit, literalist Christianity posits supernatural forces that I see no evidence for, while at the same time ignoring the values of their own tradition and scriptures as psychological and moral advice. This version of Christianity is highly debatable and deserves to be debated when ever it is promoted. IMO.