News Beat 4-29-10-Arizona Immigration Law

The Arizona Republican led legislature recently passed SB 1070, which Arizona Governor Jan Brewer subsequently signed in to law last week requiring all local law enforcement personel to stop anyone they suspect may be in the US illegally and ask them for proof of citizenship papers.

Laws like this make it less likely that illegal immigrants who witness real crimes will come forward and talk to police and it also makes them easy prey for real criminals but I doubt the Republicans who passed this give a shit about that as long as they can pander to voters with a line about how tough they are on border security.

If I were an immigration attorney I would be getting ready to file a class action lawsuit for anyone who has or will be affected by this law and I would be prepared to take it all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States where I believe, and hope, it will eventually be struck down as unconstitutional, the issue being the matter of probable cause, and the question being, what probable cause does an officer have to stop and ask someone for proof of citizenship paperwork? The simple answer is none, they have no probable cause, unless, like the idiot Republicans in the Arizona legislature you believe that brown skin is probable cause. Newsflash, it is not and never will be.

My verdict:

Bad law and untilmately unconstitutional.

This sounds like it would fit right in with the Nuremberg laws of 1935. The police are to stop people based upon ethnicity and demand proof of citizenship. WTF are we doing? This is the most absurd law that has passed in recent history. My hope / guess is that it does not last.

Scott wrote:This sounds like it would fit right in with the Nuremberg laws of 1935. The police are to stop people based upon ethnicity and demand proof of citizenship. WTF are we doing? This is the most absurd law that has passed in recent history. My hope / guess is that it does not last.

Absolutely agree, how many Hispanic-Americans whose family has been here for hundreds of years, are walking around with citizenship papers in their wallets or purses? Probably not many if any at all, and if they don't have such proof then police can now decide to prosecute them for voilation of state law or turn them over to the Border Patrol. This is going to further put more strainon the court and jail systems and cost the state a lot of money in the long run. Personally I think the Arizona legislature knows this law won't stand long and will be struck down in short order by the SCOTUS or a lower court, but they did it anyway simply to get everyone focused on the immigration problem. I don't agree with it either way and personally have no problem with people wanting to go wherever they want to go as long as they dont harm anyone else, I dont think borders should hinder a person's right to travel freely. My experience with the Mexican people who come here to Arizona has been mostly good and I have found them to be honest, hard working people in search of a better life. Sure, there are some bad apples in the bunch but no more than any other group of people.

I really dont know what the answer is but this law isn't it, that much is clear.

Whats next, identification arm bands?

....with everything you guys are saying...

As usual I will be on the conservative side of this issue - I support Arizona. Many hispanics in that community who are legal residents support this - when this kind or shit hits your community - you might think differently. It is against the law and Mexico requires more of people who go to that country and they will enforce their laws. We have the right to enforce ours. And by the way this is already a law in our country but admin. after admin. has decided to look the other way and now the violence and destruction of Mexico is in Phoenix. I say to the President of Mexico...how about trying to make a country people don't try to get out of? Fix your problems and quit being a hypocrite.

ziggy wrote:As usual I will be on the conservative side of this issue - I support Arizona. Many hispanics in that community who are legal residents support this - when this kind or shit hits your community - you might think differently. It is against the law and Mexico requires more of people who go to that country and they will enforce their laws. We have the right to enforce ours. And by the way this is already a law in our country but admin. after admin. has decided to look the other way and now the violence and destruction of Mexico is in Phoenix. I say to the President of Mexico...how about trying to make a country people don't try to get out of? Fix your problems and quit being a hypocrite.

Immigration is a non issue. It is made into an issue by things like Arizona SB1070 and the proposal a couple years ago to fence in the Mexican / US border. It perpetuates an us v. them mentality. It is a way to label a group of people and collectively blame them for problems that they did not create.



People come across the southern border for the same reason that generations of people from all over the world have come to this county. They want to enjoy greater opportunities here that may not be available to them in the other places the come from. In general they mean no harm to anyone. They are not the enemy. They are not a threat to our way of life.

There are certainly some scary articles about some immigrant that committed some crime but this is not the norm. For each of those articles I can find 10 that show someone who was born here that did something horrific to someone else. This frenzy that people get worked up into over Mexican immigration is not that dissimilar to the early Nazi party. I am not suggesting we are going that far. I am asking what we are so afraid of.

...unless you are a native american ,you are an immigrant in this country,maybe second,third,tenth generation or whatever....you're still an immigrant.Noone is here illegally by choice,there is NO fair way to become legal,you either have to win the green card lottery or marry someone,other then that you can only get a temporary work or student permit......they want you to be here illegally so you can be used for cheap labor,with no rights...many illegal immigrants pay taxes,they get a taxpayer identification numbers and are still illegal...I'm in texas I know many people that do this....it's completely unfair......

We have laws. Either follow them or work to have them changed, or violate them and suffer the consequences. There are legal ways to become an American citizen. Claudi, other than my mother who became a naturalized citizen years ago, I have known several other people who have entered the USA legally and became citizens. It takes time and work, but it was worth it to them. Becoming a citizen of a country is not some God-given right that one has at birth.

Kay wrote:We have laws. Either follow them or work to have them changed, or violate them and suffer the consequences. There are legal ways to become an American citizen. Claudi, other than my mother who became a naturalized citizen years ago, I have known several other people who have entered the USA legally and became citizens. It takes time and work, but it was worth it to them. Becoming a citizen of a country is not some God-given right that one has at birth.

I'm not sure it is God given but it actually IS a right that one has at birth. I am a citizen becuase I was born here.

It is time for the change in the naturalization law as well - it seems there is a move now to require that if you are born here you must be born to citizens. I support that as well.

Did you know it is already required of every citizen in the US to carry ID when you are out? Yes, when you are stopped, you are supposed to be carrying ID - it is required. Why shouldn't an illegal be required to carry ID?

In Mexico, if you are visiting you are required to carry your passport wherever you go.

I have several friends who took the difficult route of entering the country legally and it took a lot of patience and work. It's not up to us to feed the world and let everyone from an effed up country just penetrate our systems and live off our programs.

What we have now is UNSUSTAINABLE for our country because we have not enforced our own policies. It seems like a good deal for illegals but again it is UNSUSTAINABLE. It is breaking the economies of border states and putting undo hardship on the LEGAL law obiding citizens.

I wish I could pick and choose which law I think I'd LIKE to obey. There is nothing being forced on them and our past administrations, all of them, are to blame for this but just giving up to the political correct pressure will not be the solution.

BTW - the MAJORITY of Americans agree with this. Main stream media is reporting it as if the entire country is outrages, LOL and the truth is only a minority are of the other more liberal persuasion.

Go ahead, have your protests on May Day, take to the streets, fly your Mexican flags, demand your rights in my country and see where that gets you. Common sense still has a majority foothold.

This is anti ILLEGAL immigration. Immigration I'm in favor of, but do it the right way and if you think that's too difficult let's change the process. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

ziggy wrote:It is time for the change in the naturalization law as well - it seems there is a move now to require that if you are born here you must be born to citizens. I support that as well.

Did you know it is already required of every citizen in the US to carry ID when you are out? Yes, when you are stopped, you are supposed to be carrying ID - it is required. Why shouldn't an illegal be required to carry ID?

In Mexico, if you are visiting you are required to carry your passport wherever you go.

I have several friends who took the difficult route of entering the country legally and it took a lot of patience and work. It's not up to us to feed the world and let everyone from an effed up country just penetrate our systems and live off our programs.

What we have now is UNSUSTAINABLE for our country because we have not enforced our own policies. It seems like a good deal for illegals but again it is UNSUSTAINABLE. It is breaking the economies of border states and putting undo hardship on the LEGAL law obiding citizens.

I wish I could pick and choose which law I think I'd LIKE to obey. There is nothing being forced on them and our past administrations, all of them, are to blame for this but just giving up to the political correct pressure will not be the solution.

BTW - the MAJORITY of Americans agree with this. Main stream media is reporting it as if the entire country is outrages, LOL and the truth is only a minority are of the other more liberal persuasion.

Go ahead, have your protests on May Day, take to the streets, fly your Mexican flags, demand your rights in my country and see where that gets you. Common sense still has a majority foothold.

This is anti ILLEGAL immigration. Immigration I'm in favor of, but do it the right way and if you think that's too difficult let's change the process. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

1] Could you please cite the law that requires me to carry id. It could be there. There are lots of legal requirements for all kinds of things. I am not familiar with this one.
2] Careful asserting what a "majority" of Americans are in favor of. I recall that our last several national elections have been very close. There are certainly popular and unpopular ideas and these vary regionally. I am not certain that there is a clear majority view on a whole bunch of different issues.

That's a good point on the majority - but imo this is an unsustainable policy. I am for workers from Mexico on a work program but not drug cartels and criminals who want to come here and further THAT career.

I stand corrected - a state can make it a crime for you to identify yourself and a crime to give false ID. There is no law that says you must carry ID, but there are laws in other countries that if you are visiting or not a citizen you must carry ID with you at all times.

When stopped - you are required to identify yourself. That means verbally giving everything that would be on your ID and it is a crime to give false information. So that leaves most in the same position as if they had their ID on them - except that it is a verbal representation of what your actual ID is.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/student/20031112_sucher.html

Ziggy - Looks like the issue of requirement to carry ID is still unresolved on a federal level. If you find something more recent than 04 let me know. Hiibel v. Sixth District of NV upheld a requirement to identify oneself by name upon request of law enforcement but did NOT require a citizen to carry documents.

you beat me to it -see above post - it' s basically the same thing though if you are required to ID yourself with a name and address etc. Giving false info is illegal. So if stopped, illegals would be required to tell the truth if not required to carry ID. People who are not citizens should be required to carry ID.

Scott wrote:

Kay wrote:We have laws. Either follow them or work to have them changed, or violate them and suffer the consequences. There are legal ways to become an American citizen. Claudi, other than my mother who became a naturalized citizen years ago, I have known several other people who have entered the USA legally and became citizens. It takes time and work, but it was worth it to them. Becoming a citizen of a country is not some God-given right that one has at birth.

I'm not sure it is God given but it actually IS a right that one has at birth. I am a citizen becuase I was born here.

I should have said, "of another country." It was in response to Claudi's statement that there is no "fair" way to become a citizen here.

Is there a federal law that requires visiting foreign national to carry their passport/visa/green card on them at all times?

[quote="Kay"]We have laws. Either follow them or work to have them changed, or violate them and suffer the consequences. There are legal ways to become an American citizen. Claudi, other than my mother who became a naturalized citizen years ago, I have known several other people who have entered the USA legally and became citizens. It takes time and work, but it was worth it to them. Becoming a citizen of a country is not some God-given right that one has at birth.[/quote
how?...because it's simply not true that you can become a legal resident "with time and work"
you can't become a citizen without first being a legal resident.
...it used to be like that,not anymore...I've tried to help people get legal,I've talked to lawyers specializing in that field and there is NO way whatsoever to become legal besides what I mentioned before...

Here's the actual bill . . . I don't see a problem . . .

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.sb1070_04-19-10_astransmittedtogovernor.doc.htm

You can get a drivers license when you're here illegal.You don't need to be a resident to get a license.
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW SOMEONE CAN BECOME "LEGAL"...HOW?

[quote="claudicici"]

Kay wrote:We have laws. Either follow them or work to have them changed, or violate them and suffer the consequences. There are legal ways to become an American citizen. Claudi, other than my mother who became a naturalized citizen years ago, I have known several other people who have entered the USA legally and became citizens. It takes time and work, but it was worth it to them. Becoming a citizen of a country is not some God-given right that one has at birth.[/quote
how?...because it's simply not true that you can become a legal resident "with time and work"
you can't become a citizen without first being a legal resident.
...it used to be like that,not anymore...I've tried to help people get legal,I've talked to lawyers specializing in that field and there is NO way whatsoever to become legal besides what I mentioned before...

These people have come over on work visas. They have worked years and years. They have become US citizens (from New Zeland, Wales, France). It took many years, hard work and staying out of trouble. One of my aunts and all of my cousins (from the Philippines) did the same thing to become Canadian citizens . . . first one became a resident, then sponsored another, who sponsored another, etc. It can be done.

I live in a small rural town. There is one giant Mexican family here -- all legal. First one came, worked hard, sponsored a relative, who came and worked hard and sponsored a relative, etc. etc. etc. There are probably seven brothers who have become (or are on their way to becoming) American citizens. They own several restaurants in town, they do very well and a great citizens. They are the typical rags-to-riches American dream story. The only bad thing that happened to them recently was when some illegal immigrants forged documents to become employed at the restaurant, breaking other laws, etc. etc. The restaurants were forced to close down for a while until everything got straightened out. The owner has the hardest time finding LEGAL Mexican immigrants who want to work for him.

What shouldn't be done it to violate the law. Do you think it is wrong to tell someone, "No, you cannot come to America. You cannot be a citizen?"

[quote="claudicici"]

Kay wrote:We have laws. Either follow them or work to have them changed, or violate them and suffer the consequences. There are legal ways to become an American citizen. Claudi, other than my mother who became a naturalized citizen years ago, I have known several other people who have entered the USA legally and became citizens. It takes time and work, but it was worth it to them. Becoming a citizen of a country is not some God-given right that one has at birth.[/quote
how?...because it's simply not true that you can become a legal resident "with time and work"
you can't become a citizen without first being a legal resident.
...it used to be like that,not anymore...I've tried to help people get legal,I've talked to lawyers specializing in that field and there is NO way whatsoever to become legal besides what I mentioned before...

I think I see what you're saying . . . sorry! You're talking about someone who is here illegally and you're trying to find out how they can stay and become legal. I do not think that is possible. I do not know that would be allowed. It would only encourage illegal immigration. I would think it would also be very unfair to those who go through the legal process to become a US citizen.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/29/arizona.immigration.lawsuit/index.html?iref=allsearch

And SB1070 is challenged.

You are right Kay - I used to work in the Vietnamese community and there were many who came, worked hard and fought for citizenship. They also brought over relatives and got them on govt. programs illegally, but that's another story - seems they figured out that was much easier; I mean why obey the law when the Mexican people don't right? Not enforcing laws encourages bad behavior, bad character and is harmful to those who choose to follow the rules and do the right thing.

Character matters.

And I trust that if we do not allow illegals to work here unless there is a work program to keep track of them and how much money they make and funnel into Mexico or other countries - that the economy will demand such a program be put in place and monitored and I feel that would be the right thing to do.

Most of these people don't want to become Americans; they want to make money and send it back to Mexico. We are the #2 source of $$$$ in the Mexican economy so of course they don't want that to end. Sniff...I smell money and that is the reason for the Mexican President's anger.