Jonbenet Ramsey Case

One might be surprised to find out how many of the reported "facts" have no basis in fact whatsoever, but come from unqualified sources and rumor and innuendo, all filtered by media that will blow on the spark until fire consumes the forest.

And anyone in a position like the people under discussion here would have to have been living under a rock not to realize they needed to get a lawyer in this day and age.

Thats true, after I started really taking this case seriously I started to immediatelty realize that quite a bit of what was being reported in the news and on internet discussion forums had no basis in fact at all and were simply rumors that people had spread around and others later began to take it all as truth.

Also, I dont think many of us realize the hell the Ramseys and Anthonys and others have went through, imagine your life under a global microscope, every single thing that you do or say is analyzed and scrutinized and your face is plastered all over shows like Nanacy Grace for months and months and years and years, every day all day and night, wash, rinse and repeat. I get bent out of shape when my wife watches me too closely and is always up in my ass about this or that so I cant even imagine how bad it would be to have the press on your tail 24-7 watching and listening everything you do and say. I think the Anthonys would even concede that a prison sentence may have been easier than living through that media hell all these years.

And I agree, of course, whether you are guilty or not you should have legal representation if something like this were to happen to you because the family is always suspected in cases like this and no matter how much you cooperate you will say or do something that will trip you up and make you look more guilty to the cops even if you had nothing to do with it, thats why you have a lawyer telling what questions you should and should not answer. Lawyers know what they are doing, most of them at least.

ziggy wrote:Claudi - can you link to some of that because I think you may not have the facts exactly right? Pam went on the 28th after evidence was collected and she was to get things for the funeral and for an indeterminate amount of time - so things the family would need because they had no intention of going back there. An inventory list was taken - not as thorough as some would like but people have been known to list off the items so it seems pretty detailed to me.

There was also an attempt to block evidence that would exculpate the Ramseys from being heard at the grand jury by the very people you accuse of giving them special treatment.

Christian people are taught to forgive and some people have trouble keeping their anger through sorrow; some never find it; some only know the anger so these comments depend on various factors as how someone was raised, how many meds they are on etc. I don't feel very angry when I'm riddled with valium. Patsy's comment was right on - criminals usually tell someone else in some way what they did. She is saying that someone out there knows or suspects BESIDES a perp. How this leads to guilt is beyond me.
They never went back to that house.

You also never responded to the questions about the doll.

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm yeah,I'm sure I'd really have a desperate need for my golf clubs after my child was murdered.I don't care how much of a "forgiving christian" you are,I can't relate to that one bit...I can relate to Summer's mom who appeared on every TV show and had one message for her baby's killer "we're gonna get you"....I'm sure that would be the only reason for any parent to go on living is to find who did this.
It's been a long time since I read about this case and what mostly stuck in my mind was what I read in Steve Thomas book ,for some reason the American Doll thing blew my mind and I did go back to read up on it now and you're right that one is merely based on internet rumors,so I'll disregard it...

claudicici wrote:

ziggy wrote:Claudi - can you link to some of that because I think you may not have the facts exactly right? Pam went on the 28th after evidence was collected and she was to get things for the funeral and for an indeterminate amount of time - so things the family would need because they had no intention of going back there. An inventory list was taken - not as thorough as some would like but people have been known to list off the items so it seems pretty detailed to me.

There was also an attempt to block evidence that would exculpate the Ramseys from being heard at the grand jury by the very people you accuse of giving them special treatment.

Christian people are taught to forgive and some people have trouble keeping their anger through sorrow; some never find it; some only know the anger so these comments depend on various factors as how someone was raised, how many meds they are on etc. I don't feel very angry when I'm riddled with valium. Patsy's comment was right on - criminals usually tell someone else in some way what they did. She is saying that someone out there knows or suspects BESIDES a perp. How this leads to guilt is beyond me.
They never went back to that house.

You also never responded to the questions about the doll.

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm yeah,I'm sure I'd really have a desperate need for my golf clubs after my child was murdered.I don't care how much of a "forgiving christian" you are,I can't relate to that one bit...I can relate to Summer's mom who appeared on every TV show and had one message for her baby's killer "we're gonna get you"....I'm sure that would be the only reason for any parent to go on living is to find who did this.
It's been a long time since I read about this case and what mostly stuck in my mind was what I read in Steve Thomas book ,for some reason the American Doll thing blew my mind and I did go back to read up on it now and you're right that one is merely based on internet rumors,so I'll disregard it...

The more of these types of cases I read and learn about the more I dont understand how people react as they do, some of them seem so calm and collected in the face of such a tragedy as losing a child that I simply also cannot relate to it, I would personally be knocking people on their asses and out hunting for my kid or his or her killer myself and I wouldnt stop until I had some damned good answers.

The first thing I would NOT do is invite half the neighborhood over before the police arrived thereby tainting/destroying the entire crime scene and all the evidence therein. I would want that place taped off immediately and every square inch searched and searched again for any possible clue or shred of evidence that would lead me to the monster that harmed my child.

Of course this is all hypothetical and none of us really know how we would react in such a situation.

Everyone here is saying "what I would do is" but you do not really know what you would do. None of us can say until we've had the experience. The way you're thinking right now is not the same way you would think upon learning that your child is dead.

I do not think anyone has the right to tell another what is the right or wrong way to react to this type of horrible and shocking situation, or to grieve. I never cry. To others I'd look guilty because I would not look upset. I've known people who have bought or asked for stuff, immediately after some bad situation, and then later had no idea WTF they were doing with that item. I knew one lady who had a son killed in a car accident. All she could focus on was a scheduled dental appointment. Her brain just wasn't processing information that way it should have, or the way we think it should have.

And sometimes I wear the same clothes the next day too.

Kay wrote:Everyone here is saying "what I would do is" but you do not really know what you would do. None of us can say until we've had the experience. The way you're thinking right now is not the same way you would think upon learning that your child is dead.

I do not think anyone has the right to tell another what is the right or wrong way to react to this type of horrible and shocking situation, or to grieve. I never cry. To others I'd look guilty because I would not look upset. I've known people who have bought or asked for stuff, immediately after some bad situation, and then later had no idea WTF they were doing with that item. I knew one lady who had a son killed in a car accident. All she could focus on was a scheduled dental appointment. Her brain just wasn't processing information that way it should have, or the way we think it should have.

And sometimes I wear the same clothes the next day too.

Yea thats all very true, none of us really know how we would react and its easy sitting where we are to say this or that but being in the middle of it all is a whole different animal.

I dont doubt that people do wear the same clothes two days in a row, I personally do not but I sweat a lot in the Arizona heat also and have to wear a suit to- work everyday, but I really just dont see Patsy Ramsey doing it, the situation being what it was, she went to a party the night before then was supposed to get up and take a flight to Michigan the next morning but when police arrived she was still wearing the same clothes she wore to that party, it just doesnt make sense to me that someone with that kind of money and someone who cares so much about how people see her, would do something that like, but then again I dont know her so I really cant say for sure whether that is out of character for her or not, obviously some of you ladies here say its common so I have to take your word for it but then again none of you are Patsy Ramsey either.

claudicici wrote:

ziggy wrote:Claudi - can you link to some of that because I think you may not have the facts exactly right? Pam went on the 28th after evidence was collected and she was to get things for the funeral and for an indeterminate amount of time - so things the family would need because they had no intention of going back there. An inventory list was taken - not as thorough as some would like but people have been known to list off the items so it seems pretty detailed to me.

There was also an attempt to block evidence that would exculpate the Ramseys from being heard at the grand jury by the very people you accuse of giving them special treatment.

Christian people are taught to forgive and some people have trouble keeping their anger through sorrow; some never find it; some only know the anger so these comments depend on various factors as how someone was raised, how many meds they are on etc. I don't feel very angry when I'm riddled with valium. Patsy's comment was right on - criminals usually tell someone else in some way what they did. She is saying that someone out there knows or suspects BESIDES a perp. How this leads to guilt is beyond me.
They never went back to that house.

You also never responded to the questions about the doll.

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm yeah,I'm sure I'd really have a desperate need for my golf clubs after my child was murdered.I don't care how much of a "forgiving christian" you are,I can't relate to that one bit...I can relate to Summer's mom who appeared on every TV show and had one message for her baby's killer "we're gonna get you"....I'm sure that would be the only reason for any parent to go on living is to find who did this.
It's been a long time since I read about this case and what mostly stuck in my mind was what I read in Steve Thomas book ,for some reason the American Doll thing blew my mind and I did go back to read up on it now and you're right that one is merely based on internet rumors,so I'll disregard it...

Yeah, but a candy rose is not exactly unbiased two sides yadayada...either. I would be more like you Claudi but the world has many different types of people who handle their grief and their sorrow differently. Unfortunately I've had to witness loss in my own family too many times and with two dear friends and have seen how varied the coping mechanisms are. We lost a 3 yearl old child tragically - everyone dealt with it differently. What I would do is not what everyone does...but some like you and mr would be ready to find the SOB and never forget and never forgive. Not everyone would wear the same clothes, but some would. I think it's more important to judge the hard evidence for those reasons. It gets muddy in those waters.

.....I don't know anything about hard evidence.You can tell me the DNA in her panties could have come from a factory worker that manufactured the panties or it had to have come from the killer.I wouldn't know what to believe...
All I know is when I start thinking about a case is how I would feel but also how different people would feel ,I can understand a wide range of emotions and actions and I do judge based on that.
It's all just my opinion.That's all it is.It 's not fair a lot of times and frankly it makes me angry that I don't have a shred of sympathy for the Ramsey's nor do I like thinking about the case.
I read two books about it. The one Steve Thomas wrote and the one the Ramsey's wrote.
I know I shoudn't judge people but the book the Ramsey's wrote made me sick.I never once had the feeling Patsy genuinely cared about JonBennet at all.I understand Patsy was the way she was because of her mom and her upbringing.I think John Ramsey used to care.He cared when he lost his first daughter.I think by the time JonBenet died he was emotionally drained,I think he was already dead inside,a money making robot that wanted to play golf 2 days after his daughter died.
Of course since I don't have much sympathy for the Ramsey's ,it's easier for me to believe they're not innocent.
I know a lot of people say Steve Thomas was an inept detective but his book shows a lot of passion for what he was doing ,every page is soaked with his urgency to solve this case and every page shows sadly more care and concern for JonBenet than the Ramsey's show in their book.
just MY OPINION .....

ziggy wrote:

Yeah, but a candy rose is not exactly unbiased two sides yadayada...either. I would be more like you Claudi but the world has many different types of people who handle their grief and their sorrow differently. Unfortunately I've had to witness loss in my own family too many times and with two dear friends and have seen how varied the coping mechanisms are. We lost a 3 yearl old child tragically - everyone dealt with it differently. What I would do is not what everyone does...but some like you and mr would be ready to find the SOB and never forget and never forgive. Not everyone would wear the same clothes, but some would. I think it's more important to judge the hard evidence for those reasons. It gets muddy in those waters.

That's a really good post, Ziggy. I think you've put your finger on why some of the public work themselves up so over small details out of context. Every single thing the families do (ramseys, anthonys, other) gets reported and dissected and compared to what someone else would do and pretty soon the collateral victims look like monsters who are nothing at all like "us." I agree one needs to judge the hard evidence; and, since the hard evidence is not always available to us before trial, some of these people hounding the families might take a more measured approach, realize they don't know shit about what they're talking about, and temper their opinions and reserve judgment.

It's like mass hysteria in the two cases we're discussing, and several others.

(Claudi, I know you're not down there in Florida, parked on anyone's lawn, with a rude sign, but some take it to that point. They are, I think, like "first responders." This is waxing, not waning. You might want to be circumspect about buying into it, even passively.)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37337336#37337336
Man that falsely confessed to the murder is in the news again. He is so deeply disturbed.