Why did Sam call the police to check the basement?

I think it's pretty obvious sam is a lost little boy,i don't think that's much of a defense though...it does explain him calling the cops however,a mixture of confusion,not knowing what to do next,......
I do think it makes sense the "skinny" cop spread the rumor he was next but i don't think that was sam's intention..

Shit, who knows, maybe he was just going to tell them "hey I killed some people, take me away" and changed his mind.

Heroine wrote:Shit, who knows, maybe he was just going to tell them "hey I killed some people, take me away" and changed his mind.

Maybe he told them he fed his fish too much...

ok so let's just face it. In Sam's life, a lot of people haven't been the most supportive. Do you guys think since skinny cop believed him he felt like he kind of COULD ask skinny cop a hypothetical or feel like he could turn himself in to a sympathetic ear?

Why not turn yourself in to the two officers that came?

One reason I believe he wanted skinny cop back is because he's also an elderly man. Now if you are armed with a hammer and a maul; it's much easier to take on Barney than two guys. Also, we don't know but what the two cops were younger and leaner or even buff.

Sam may be lost, but he's no little boy. A lost soul maybe but that is of his own doing as well.

I think he knew he was going to be famous. Period.

ziggy wrote:Why not turn yourself in to the two officers that came?

One reason I believe he wanted skinny cop back is because he's also an elderly man. Now if you are armed with a hammer and a maul; it's much easier to take on Barney than two guys. Also, we don't know but what the two cops were younger and leaner or even buff.

Sam may be lost, but he's no little boy. A lost soul maybe but that is of his own doing as well.

I think he knew he was going to be famous. Period.

He's not "elderly". He's older, but it's not like he's 70 years old with a drip bag and a walker. And he's still much bigger than Sam. And trained as a police officer. And armed with a gun. I'd hope Farmville's police department has some sort of physical requirement standards to where they'd have to have above average strength, agility, fitness and awareness. I'd also hope it's not full of geriatrics. I don't buy the argument that the lone, skinny cop was an easy target.

In a lot of circumstances, people like Sam sometimes feel like they can instantly be able to open up to certain people. I agree with TiffaniLane on this one.

Gregg E. Jarvies is a retired police chief from Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Retired Chief Jarvies came to Farmville and did an assessment of Farmville’s Police Department submitted April 29, 2009. The report did not shy away from stating the truth and really had an effect on Farmville, Virginia. For example, in one section Chief Jarvies states that the Farmville Police “…has failed in many ways of keeping up with the practices and principles of modern policing”. In each section of the assessment, there are specified “Findings” then his “Analysis” and finally his “Recommendations”. The fact that he gave recommendations is the reason why Farmville has changed; he is an accredited retired chief with recommendations that could be a value to Farmville. Basically, this report is the primary reason as to why the Farmville Police Department has changed in so many ways. In his conclusion of his report he iterated the fact that their Department is split and unorganized without a vision. When saying split, Chief Jarvies is saying that the officers of Farmville shared different opinions on the way they acted and were not united as one. Mr. Jarvies found through his interviews that just two officers believe that the department is “Perfect”, whereas the rest of the officers believed that “significant changes” must be made.

from: Wikipedia [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] <-- this is a link.

Obviously, the police department hasn't actually changed much.

Well you can see for yourself. I can tell a lot about a person's ability to move just by their normal posture. He's got gray hair, he stands with his shoulders hunched and pelvis thrust forward - that says to me a weak back, a weak stomach, not much upper body strength. Each one of those by themselves does not amount to much, but factor them ALL in and I could take this guy...seriously I could.

Ask him to check the basement...he seems really trusting this nice older cop and so he won't feel weird with me behind him and then bam, one strike to the head, he falls down the stairs and then he gets finished off.

You can't do that with two, even if they are similar physically to this guy. While you attack one, the other pulls a weapon and calls it in.

Unless you are Frank the transporter, it's best to stick to one on one fights.

OK Andres but Sam killed Mark - and he's probably bigger than Sam too and younger than skinny cop.

And factor this in too:

It's not about the size, it's about being able to catch someone off guard and when they are otherwise defenseless. Training? Same thing - when his back is turned...

This cop went to the house to inquire about a missing girl because her mother is frantically calling cops and this COP buys Sam's tall tale that some movie theatre actually plays movies until all hours of the night and that they aren't going to get home until 1 a.m. and this COP misses the smell of decaying bodies (do did the other two so you wanna talk about lack of training?).

But this COP may have seemed very unaware, not suspicious, very small town, with his guard down, an easy mark.

Sam bludgeoned four people beyond recognition and killed over a period of days...not in a sudden burst of emotion, at least not in Mark's case and probably not in Debra's either.

That is not the act of a lost little boy - that is outright personal, angry, bloody, messy, violent, and in the end he smelled of rotting death. And now you wish to believe this violent bludgeoner turns into the sad little freckle faced boy who wants to turn himself in to the nice older gentleman cop? Sorry.

ziggy wrote:Well you can see for yourself. I can tell a lot about a person's ability to move just by their normal posture. He's got gray hair, he stands with his shoulders hunched and pelvis thrust forward - that says to me a weak back, a weak stomach, not much upper body strength. Each one of those by themselves does not amount to much, but factor them ALL in and I could take this guy...seriously I could.

Ask him to check the basement...he seems really trusting this nice older cop and so he won't feel weird with me behind him and then bam, one strike to the head, he falls down the stairs and then he gets finished off.

You can't do that with two, even if they are similar physically to this guy. While you attack one, the other pulls a weapon and calls it in.

Unless you are Frank the transporter, it's best to stick to one on one fights.

This is assuming this picture is an actual picture of "the lone, skinny cop" that did the welfare check. I'm not really on board with that. We've seen no evidence to that effect other than this photograph was taken sometime after the murders and appears to show a tall older man. He doesn't really seem to be what I would call "skinny", but that's semantics. Regardless, this is a tenuous connection and is in my opinion a weak basis.


If we are to assume that this is a genuine photograph of the lone, skinny cop, then "lone, skinny cop" is taller than the man he is talking with. I'm pegging him at 6'2" - 6'4" based on the other heights of adult men in the picture. Unfortunately, it's a profile picture, so we don't have much as to his build other than he doesn't really have a gut. Now, judging someones strength and fitness based on their posture in a single picture is not a sound analysis. I'm sure I could drown up some pictures of myself where I have bad posture and that certainly doesn't mean I'm weak.

In regards to his upper body strength, Police officers generally across the board have to maintain some sort of physical fitness. If this police officer is going on patrol and doing welfare checks, that physical fitness burden would probably be higher.

With regard to your scenario: no cop is going to go down the stairs and put themselves in a vulnerable position while someone is within reach of a weapon. Furthermore, I don't see why any responsible police officer would take Sam down there with him when Sam is asking for a welfare check and is purporting something is down there.

ziggy wrote:OK Andres but Sam killed Mark - and he's probably bigger than Sam too and younger than skinny cop.

And factor this in too:

It's not about the size, it's about being able to catch someone off guard and when they are otherwise defenseless. Training? Same thing - when his back is turned...

This cop went to the house to inquire about a missing girl because her mother is frantically calling cops and this COP buys Sam's tall tale that some movie theatre actually plays movies until all hours of the night and that they aren't going to get home until 1 a.m. and this COP misses the smell of decaying bodies (do did the other two so you wanna talk about lack of training?).

But this COP may have seemed very unaware, not suspicious, very small town, with his guard down, an easy mark.

Sam bludgeoned four people beyond recognition and killed over a period of days...not in a sudden burst of emotion, at least not in Mark's case and probably not in Debra's either.

That is not the act of a lost little boy - that is outright personal, angry, bloody, messy, violent, and in the end he smelled of rotting death. And now you wish to believe this violent bludgeoner turns into the sad little freckle faced boy who wants to turn himself in to the nice older gentleman cop? Sorry.

Mark didn't have police training. I'm not talking about "smelling dead body" training, I'm talking about physical and awareness training. Basic stuff for police officers who put themselves in harms way every day. Investigation, combat, etc.

Why would a police officer have his guard down in a welfare check where he is entering a house with a possible intruder scenario? The entire "lone, skinny cop" scenario rests upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption.

While I certainly don't care about turning Sam into a "sad little freckle faced boy", I think based on knowledge of general human behavior, it's more likely than not Sam called for the welfare check for reasons other to murder the "lone, skinny cop".

Well I'm going by what Peace_gurl said and she knows his brother and I'm pretty sure although she may not be as familiar with skinny cop as his brother, she certainly knows him by sight. She directed me to the picture stating it was the officer who did the welfare check on Mel.

Maybe not a sound analysis by scientific standards but I would bet I'm right. Come ON; no muscle tone in the forearms at all. No pecs - zilch. You're going to pee on me and tell me it's raining with regard to this guys physical capabilities???

Now this is no disrespect to the offier. Andres I don't think you've ever lived in a small town. Not all communities have Venice Beach dudes as peace officers and some not even close. When I lived in TN, some of the Nashville suburbs had nice old cops that were on the beat that looked a lot like this guy.

Just sayin - this picture tells me all I need to know. And if you don't believe me we'll just have to settle it with leg wrestling...

ziggy wrote:Well I'm going by what Peace_gurl said and she knows his brother and I'm pretty sure although she may not be as familiar with skinny cop as his brother, she certainly knows him by sight. She directed me to the picture stating it was the officer who did the welfare check on Mel.

Maybe not a sound analysis by scientific standards but I would bet I'm right. Come ON; no muscle tone in the forearms at all. No pecs - zilch. You're going to pee on me and tell me it's raining with regard to this guys physical capabilities???

Now this is no disrespect to the offier. Andres I don't think you've ever lived in a small town. Not all communities have Venice Beach dudes as peace officers and some not even close. When I lived in TN, some of the Nashville suburbs had nice old cops that were on the beat that looked a lot like this guy.

Just sayin - this picture tells me all I need to know. And if you don't believe me we'll just have to settle it with leg wrestling...

Skinny guys fight to the death.

Also, fwiw, depending how you define "small town", I went to college in a small town. Also, my girlfriend wont let me leg wrestle other women .

We don't know why he called the police, but we do know that he made a decision to do so. That decision was informed by some set of beliefs and knowledge, possibly unconscious, as well as his affective state. I think we can reasonably conclude he had a reason to call them that went somewhat beyond simply showing the police some dog poop in the basement.

Anyone ever read Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment? I've been thinking about that book lately when I think about this case.

AndresEscobar wrote:

ziggy wrote:OK Andres but Sam killed Mark - and he's probably bigger than Sam too and younger than skinny cop.

And factor this in too:

It's not about the size, it's about being able to catch someone off guard and when they are otherwise defenseless. Training? Same thing - when his back is turned...

This cop went to the house to inquire about a missing girl because her mother is frantically calling cops and this COP buys Sam's tall tale that some movie theatre actually plays movies until all hours of the night and that they aren't going to get home until 1 a.m. and this COP misses the smell of decaying bodies (do did the other two so you wanna talk about lack of training?).

But this COP may have seemed very unaware, not suspicious, very small town, with his guard down, an easy mark.

Sam bludgeoned four people beyond recognition and killed over a period of days...not in a sudden burst of emotion, at least not in Mark's case and probably not in Debra's either.

That is not the act of a lost little boy - that is outright personal, angry, bloody, messy, violent, and in the end he smelled of rotting death. And now you wish to believe this violent bludgeoner turns into the sad little freckle faced boy who wants to turn himself in to the nice older gentleman cop? Sorry.

Mark didn't have police training. I'm not talking about "smelling dead body" training, I'm talking about physical and awareness training. Basic stuff for police officers who put themselves in harms way every day. Investigation, combat, etc.

Why would a police officer have his guard down in a welfare check where he is entering a house with a possible intruder scenario? The entire "lone, skinny cop" scenario rests upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption.

While I certainly don't care about turning Sam into a "sad little freckle faced boy", I think based on knowledge of general human behavior, it's more likely than not Sam called for the welfare check for reasons other to murder the "lone, skinny cop".

Not so fast my baseless accusational friend You make a very baseless assumption that this cop is up to date on any of his training, that his basic reflexes are up to par, that he can hear well or that the police department was not negligent in such matters with this guy. Investigation, combat???? I dunno, Farmville has regular officers and then they probably have homicide detectives and SWAT units. Seriously look at the guy - no really.

Awareness? Oh I'm sure he would be highly focused on looking for an intruder and not on the wood maul above his head that the nice boy is holding. When you see Syko Sam's pictures, that is a chilling scenario and because of the pictures I can see it being more real than a remorseful Sam wussing up a confession to his newfound grandfather figure.



In addition, you are making the baseless assumption that Sam wanted to turn himself in when there is nothing supporting that theory. My theory might be weak and it may be based on local rumor that skinny cop himself believed he was Sam's next victim, but that's more than you have right now - ouch!

TiffaniLane wrote:ok so let's just face it. In Sam's life, a lot of people haven't been the most supportive. Do you guys think since skinny cop believed him he felt like he kind of COULD ask skinny cop a hypothetical or feel like he could turn himself in to a sympathetic ear?

Maybe he thought this officer would be easily fooled?

Or that the invulnerability spell had worked?

Ok I admit that seems a bit preposterous, and I would have said so too if it wasn't true in another famous case.

"For instance, Serafin Hernandez Garcia, a 20 year old Texas-born
American citizen who led a double life as a college student at Texas
Southmost University, where he was studying to be a police officer, and
as a member of a family that earned its income from farming marijuana in
Mexico and transporting it to the United States. When Serafino's
grandfather Saul, the head of the family, was murdered, family tensions
escalated to the point that Serafin joined the Constanzo drug-smuggling
operation. He believed that the Palo rituals Constanzo performed on his
behalf would make him both invisible to the police and, should they see
him, render him invulnerable to their bullets."

ziggy wrote:

AndresEscobar wrote:

ziggy wrote:OK Andres but Sam killed Mark - and he's probably bigger than Sam too and younger than skinny cop.

And factor this in too:

It's not about the size, it's about being able to catch someone off guard and when they are otherwise defenseless. Training? Same thing - when his back is turned...

This cop went to the house to inquire about a missing girl because her mother is frantically calling cops and this COP buys Sam's tall tale that some movie theatre actually plays movies until all hours of the night and that they aren't going to get home until 1 a.m. and this COP misses the smell of decaying bodies (do did the other two so you wanna talk about lack of training?).

But this COP may have seemed very unaware, not suspicious, very small town, with his guard down, an easy mark.

Sam bludgeoned four people beyond recognition and killed over a period of days...not in a sudden burst of emotion, at least not in Mark's case and probably not in Debra's either.

That is not the act of a lost little boy - that is outright personal, angry, bloody, messy, violent, and in the end he smelled of rotting death. And now you wish to believe this violent bludgeoner turns into the sad little freckle faced boy who wants to turn himself in to the nice older gentleman cop? Sorry.

Mark didn't have police training. I'm not talking about "smelling dead body" training, I'm talking about physical and awareness training. Basic stuff for police officers who put themselves in harms way every day. Investigation, combat, etc.

Why would a police officer have his guard down in a welfare check where he is entering a house with a possible intruder scenario? The entire "lone, skinny cop" scenario rests upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption.

While I certainly don't care about turning Sam into a "sad little freckle faced boy", I think based on knowledge of general human behavior, it's more likely than not Sam called for the welfare check for reasons other to murder the "lone, skinny cop".

Not so fast my baseless accusational friend You make a very baseless assumption that this cop is up to date on any of his training, that his basic reflexes are up to par, that he can hear well or that the police department was not negligent in such matters with this guy. Investigation, combat???? I dunno, Farmville has regular officers and then they probably have homicide detectives and SWAT units. Seriously look at the guy - no really.

Awareness? Oh I'm sure he would be highly focused on looking for an intruder and not on the wood maul above his head that the nice boy is holding. When you see Syko Sam's pictures, that is a chilling scenario and because of the pictures I can see it being more real than a remorseful Sam wussing up a confession to his newfound grandfather figure.



In addition, you are making the baseless assumption that Sam wanted to turn himself in when there is nothing supporting that theory. My theory might be weak and it may be based on local rumor that skinny cop himself believed he was Sam's next victim, but that's more than you have right now - ouch!

I think it's a a fair assumption that police departments make sure their police officers are capable of being police officers.

Also, you have to see and appreciate the difference between lone, skinny cop thinking he was Sam's next victim and whether Sam actually thought of him as his next victim. Huge difference. One does not equal the other.

So, it seems we both have the same thing. this cat ->

AndresEscobar wrote:

ziggy wrote:

AndresEscobar wrote:

ziggy wrote:OK Andres but Sam killed Mark - and he's probably bigger than Sam too and younger than skinny cop.

And factor this in too:

It's not about the size, it's about being able to catch someone off guard and when they are otherwise defenseless. Training? Same thing - when his back is turned...

This cop went to the house to inquire about a missing girl because her mother is frantically calling cops and this COP buys Sam's tall tale that some movie theatre actually plays movies until all hours of the night and that they aren't going to get home until 1 a.m. and this COP misses the smell of decaying bodies (do did the other two so you wanna talk about lack of training?).

But this COP may have seemed very unaware, not suspicious, very small town, with his guard down, an easy mark.

Sam bludgeoned four people beyond recognition and killed over a period of days...not in a sudden burst of emotion, at least not in Mark's case and probably not in Debra's either.

That is not the act of a lost little boy - that is outright personal, angry, bloody, messy, violent, and in the end he smelled of rotting death. And now you wish to believe this violent bludgeoner turns into the sad little freckle faced boy who wants to turn himself in to the nice older gentleman cop? Sorry.

Mark didn't have police training. I'm not talking about "smelling dead body" training, I'm talking about physical and awareness training. Basic stuff for police officers who put themselves in harms way every day. Investigation, combat, etc.

Why would a police officer have his guard down in a welfare check where he is entering a house with a possible intruder scenario? The entire "lone, skinny cop" scenario rests upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption upon a baseless assumption.

While I certainly don't care about turning Sam into a "sad little freckle faced boy", I think based on knowledge of general human behavior, it's more likely than not Sam called for the welfare check for reasons other to murder the "lone, skinny cop".

Not so fast my baseless accusational friend You make a very baseless assumption that this cop is up to date on any of his training, that his basic reflexes are up to par, that he can hear well or that the police department was not negligent in such matters with this guy. Investigation, combat???? I dunno, Farmville has regular officers and then they probably have homicide detectives and SWAT units. Seriously look at the guy - no really.

Awareness? Oh I'm sure he would be highly focused on looking for an intruder and not on the wood maul above his head that the nice boy is holding. When you see Syko Sam's pictures, that is a chilling scenario and because of the pictures I can see it being more real than a remorseful Sam wussing up a confession to his newfound grandfather figure.



In addition, you are making the baseless assumption that Sam wanted to turn himself in when there is nothing supporting that theory. My theory might be weak and it may be based on local rumor that skinny cop himself believed he was Sam's next victim, but that's more than you have right now - ouch!

I think it's a a fair assumption that police departments make sure their police officers are capable of being police officers.

Also, you have to see and appreciate the difference between lone, skinny cop thinking he was Sam's next victim and whether Sam actually thought of him as his next victim. Huge difference. One does not equal the other.

So, it seems we both have the same thing. this cat ->

We know Sam called the police for a reason.

A few theories have been put forward or considered here:

1. he wanted to turn himself in, then chickened out
2. suicide by cop
3. phony alibi as part of an intruder story
4. planned to kill the "lone skinny cop" on his return
5. thought he was invulnerable and was taunting/playing with the police
6. he really thought he heard something in the basement, possibly an indication of hallucination

There might be a few others.

Fair enough, but lone skinny cop thinking what he thought comes from the yet to be substantiated fact that Sam asked for him specifically and so why else would he do that?

It is not a fair assumption to think that some small town forces require more than basic physical ability to keep a cop on the force. Perhaps they don't want to age discriminate or they haven't had a quadruple murder, or they are negligent or there is favoritism, croneyism or some other factor.

I grew up in a town that had a population of 2,000 when I graduated in 1979 and when I came back in the year 2000, it had grown to 2,300 That is small.

I would think Farmville is considered a pretty small town and Mayberry-like perhaps complete with a little soft around the edges officers.

It does make me wonder what the heck was going through Sam's mind when he called one hour after receiving the visit from the law, to ask them to come back when he's got four victimes he bludgeoned beyond recognition lying in the house.

There has to be a reason.

ziggy wrote:Fair enough, but lone skinny cop thinking what he thought comes from the yet to be substantiated fact that Sam asked for him specifically and so why else would he do that?

It is not a fair assumption to think that some small town forces require more than basic physical ability to keep a cop on the force. Perhaps they don't want to age discriminate or they haven't had a quadruple murder, or they are negligent or there is favoritism, croneyism or some other factor.

I grew up in a town that had a population of 2,000 when I graduated in 1979 and when I came back in the year 2000, it had grown to 2,300 That is small.

I would think Farmville is considered a pretty small town and Mayberry-like perhaps complete with a little soft around the edges officers.

It does make me wonder what the heck was going through Sam's mind when he called one hour after receiving the visit from the law, to ask them to come back when he's got four victimes he bludgeoned beyond recognition lying in the house.

There has to be a reason.

Earlier in the thread I posed a scenario where Sam could have asked for the police officer to come back in a manner that would be less suspicious. Basically, this proposed hypothetical scenario has Sam calling the dispatcher and asking for the cop to come back to his house. Something like, "Hey, can you send that officer back, I think I hear something in the basement." The context being: he just had a police officer at his house, and instead of asking for "a" police officer to come, he asks for "the" police officer that was just here. I'm not sure if I can make my point clear on a message board.



It's subtly different, but it's possible.

No, I get what you're saying. I would hope they have a tape recording of his call but I doubt it if he called the general number and not 911.


It still seems odd to me that he would call and say, he can you send that cop back here cuz I hear a noise...seems more likely that FIRST dispatch would ask what the call was about and he would say why, and they'd say - OK we'll send someone and then that's when he would say - please send the same guy who was here before.


In general, it's weired that he called the police. If he didn't ask for skinny cop specfically, then it weakens the theory he wanted another kill, or maybe not.

Did he make up the basement part of it on the phone during his call or when they arrived?

Leading them to the basement was the best path to avoid where the bodies lay i.e., on the other side of the den and upstairs.

Maybe it was plan B when two of them showed up. Maybe not.

I do not think he planned a confession. He had many opportunities to do that - to tell the cabbie, and others.

We also do not know what Sam's demeanor was when he called whoever and said he'd killed them all. We don't know for sure if he was acting freaked out, remorseful, boastful, numb, stunned - I don't think it's been substantiated.

"Not so fast my baseless accusational friend"--Gotta love that girl. That reminds me of when Dan Akroid used to say to Jane Curtain on Point--Counterpoint--"Jane-you ignorant slut"--LOL.

ziggy wrote:No, I get what you're saying. I would hope they have a tape recording of his call but I doubt it if he called the general number and not 911.


It still seems odd to me that he would call and say, he can you send that cop back here cuz I hear a noise...seems more likely that FIRST dispatch would ask what the call was about and he would say why, and they'd say - OK we'll send someone and then that's when he would say - please send the same guy who was here before.


In general, it's weired that he called the police. If he didn't ask for skinny cop specfically, then it weakens the theory he wanted another kill, or maybe not.

Did he make up the basement part of it on the phone during his call or when they arrived?

Leading them to the basement was the best path to avoid where the bodies lay i.e., on the other side of the den and upstairs.

Maybe it was plan B when two of them showed up. Maybe not.

I do not think he planned a confession. He had many opportunities to do that - to tell the cabbie, and others.

We also do not know what Sam's demeanor was when he called whoever and said he'd killed them all. We don't know for sure if he was acting freaked out, remorseful, boastful, numb, stunned - I don't think it's been substantiated.

yeah. My overarching point is we really don't know anything about a lot of this stuff, and minute details shift the entire analysis.

CharlieChan, you ignorant slut. Seriously, though, good to see one of super sleuths around these parts...