GENERAL OPINIONS

Paximus taught me years ago that one of the biggest and most cherished beliefs teachings and closely gaurded secrets of the occult community is that the Serpent in the book of Genesis in the Garden of Eden is the real force of goodness and that his adversary in that story YHVH the God that is worshiped by the Judeo-Christian religions is the one who lied to you and wants to lead you astray, keep you controlled, in the dark and ignorant of your true nature.

Evidence you may ask:'

God tells Adam and Eve if they eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, sometimes mistakingly symbolized as an apple "you shall surely die"

The Serpent responds that God does not want you to eat it because you will not die but rather you will become LIKE THE GODS themselves, all knowing all powerful and with a knowledge of your true nature and destiny.

So they eat of it and God says " Oh look they have eaten of it and now THEY HAVE BECOME LIKE ONE OF US."

They didnt die.

So who told the truth? The Serpent, who said if they ate of it they would become like the Gods. The Gods lied and said they would die, but after they ate of it the Gods CONFIRMED what the Serpent said "Oh look, now they have become like one of us"

The Serpent told the truth and God lied to you.

Think deeply about this, it is at the heart of ALL occult teachings.

...thanks,it makes a lot of sense,it's also clear that throughout history the main focus of christianity is to keep people "in the dark",once you know too much or want to know you're being prosecuted...for example the witch hunts...christianity has literally been used to keep people as slaves.

Originally Posted by Splendor Solis It's not just the version of the Bible. Catholicism also believes that Protestantism is leading all of it's followers in the wrong direction, thanks to Martin Luther and his butchering of the Bible. Somewhat fitting in to the earlier conversation on who was actually leading to the dark.

Also, the other way around. I was raised Catholic, and was told by my girlfriends fundie mother that that meant I was "ignorant" and going to hell.

I would think that I don't practice and am agnostic would be worse, but not to her.

Originally Posted by claudicici I grew up catholic also...lots of stuff I never understood,my mom could not take part in the bread and wine sharing stuff cos she was married to my dad who was married before which made her a sinner. In church I always felt horribly sorry for jesus and angry at god. In around 7th grade I found out about the apogryphal texts and stuff and i felt super angry and betrayed.

The Catholic Church via The Council of NICEA decided what books would be in the New Testament that you have today, Constantine was the one who basically made these decisions 325 years AFTER Jesus allegedly died and he wasnt even a Christian, he was a Mithraist till the day he died. MOST of the ACTUAL TEXTS that were used by the ORIGINAL CHRISTIAN COMMUNITIES now known as COPTICS witten by those who actually knew and walked with Jesus, were not put in the NT and were rejected by the Council of Nicea, largely because they did not meet the political agenda of the Church because many of them indicate in plain and simple words that Jesus and Mary Magadalene actually had a relationship and possibly had children and established and special bloodline that to this day has been supressed, and that god is WITHIN EACH OF US and we are all POTENTIALLY "Christs" meaning each of us have the potential within us to be annointed and to know the truth about who we really are and what we are really capable of, these books were of course not recognized by the Chuch and those who claimed them were deemed heretics and burned at the stake, because these books teach us things that will liberate us and empower us and therefore bring and end to the blind and willfull ignorance that allows us all to be controlled by those who claim a monopoly on truth and teach us that only through them can it be found, it is THOSE VERY BOOKS that you should be interested in because they dont want you to see them and there is a reason for that.

You do not need a middle man, the church, priests, pastors and preachers to communicate with "god" if you believe such a thing exists I would suggest it is within you and if you look close enough and dig deep enough you will find it, this is what Buddhism is about, its a path that teaches us to navigate those rough waters within ourselves so that we can arrive safely ashore and step off on to the ground with our feet, mind, body and soul firmly planted and working together as one unit as opposed to the inner warfare that most of us lead our entire lives fighting and struggling with.

My rule of thumb is to REJECT the books the Church decided to accept and to accept and study the books the church decided to reject and it is my opinion that this is how you will find THE TRUTH if such a thing exists.

I will say one thing that really changed my life, when I was able to learn to forgive those who did me harm and have compassion for them EVEN WHEN THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT, like Sam for example, it was therein that I finally found the freedom and peace of mind I had been searching for all my life.

Originally Posted by peace_gurl Wonder if Sam said you laugh at me and I will slaughter you in your sleep? They ate the apple and they do die. It did not say that they would drop dead right then and there. Why are we debating the Old Testament? Thought the KJV is just bull so why do you want to debate it? I will give this to you in a very simple way. I have had experiences beyond your comprehension, so I have my own beliefs that no one can influence. You are free to believe what you may, but I believe in Christ. He is the light! I thought this was a discussing about FOUR Murders in Farmville. Correct me if I am wrong.

Lets not start taking things personal, this has been the one thread on this entire forum where each of us has contributed in our own special way and none of us have judged eachother for any differences of opinion we may share and I dont see why we should start now. Obviously DM and I are Buddhists and we have our own unique way of seeing things because of that and accordingly you have your own unique way. I was raised Jewish by Orthodox parents we had to memorize the OT in HEBREW its original language and as an extension of that I was also taught to read the NT in its original language of Greek because Jewish people in general are not fond of their holy books being read in translated languages obviously because much is lost in translation and because of these experiences I do speak with some authority when I tell you that the bible as you know it in the english language is not the same bible as I know it in its original language just as my monk tells me the Buddhist texts I read in english are not the same as they are when read in their original Pali. So yes we are going to have some disagreements and that is ok, you may be right and I may be wrong and DM himself admitted as much, but that doesnt mean each of us are not entitled to our own opinion and should not be judged or ridiculed or called evil because it may differ from someone elses..


As for this thread being about Sam and the murders sure that is what it is about but since there has been no new information we, being that we have all become close friends over the last few months, have been trying to stay connected and keep the thread and our friendships alive by discussing other things of interest and sharing with others some of the things we enjoy studying and researching and I see no harm in that and in fact had we not taken that course this thread would have been buried on page 20 of the forum and long forgotten and all the friendships we have made would be lost. So lets all stick together for as long as we can because I consider the loss of even one of you a great void in my life as you have all become people who I value very much and appreciate everything that each and every one of you have to share.

Originally Posted by Splendor Solis . It's not about whether he was happy or not. Honestly, who would look forward to being betrayed, ridiculed and beaten in front of the whole town, and then crucified? I know I wouldn't. He struggled with it, he wasn't "hiding" from it.

To illustrate this, check out the show Jesus Christ Superstar and watch the Garden of Gethsemane scene. I LOVE the theater production of the show more than the movie ... I always know if the man playing Jesus is any good based on how moved I am by this one song. This link is Ted Neeley, THE Jesus ... he has played Him off and on for 30 years. Magic.

Quote:

JESUS I only want to say, If there is a way, Take this cup away from me For I don't want to taste its poison. Feel it burn me, I have changed. I'm not as sure, as when we started. Then, I was inspired. Now, I'm sad and tired. Listen, surely I've exceeded expectations, Tried for three years, seems like thirty. Could you ask as much from any other man? But if I die, See the saga through and do the things you ask of me, Let them hate me, hit me, hurt me, nail me to their tree. I'd want to know, I'd want to know, My God, I'd want to know, I'd want to know, My God, Want to see, I'd want to see, My God, Want to see, I'd want to see, My God, Why I should die. Would I be more noticed than I ever was before? Would the things I've said and done matter any more? I'd have to know, I'd have to know, my Lord, Have to know, I'd have to know, my Lord, Have to see, I'd have to see, my Lord, Have to see, I'd have to see, my Lord, If I die what will be my reward? If I die what will be my reward? Have to know, I'd have to know, my Lord, I'd have to know, I'd have to know, my Lord, Why should I die? Oh why should I die? Can you show me now that I would not be killed in vain? Show me just a little of your omnipresent brain. Show me there's a reason for your wanting me to die. You're far to keen and where and how, but not so hot on why. Alright, I'll die! Just watch me die! See how I die! Then I was inspired. Now, I'm sad and tired. After all, I've tried for three years, seems like ninety. Why then am I scared to finish what I started, What you started - I didn't start it. God, thy will is hard, But you hold every card. I will drink your cup of poison. Nail me to your cross and break me, Bleed me, beat me, Kill me. Take me, now! Before I change my mind.

Originally Posted by peace_gurl I have had experiences beyond your comprehension, so I have my own beliefs that no one can influence.

Gurl, I, for one, would love to hear about your experiences. I have always wished for the comfort that religion (no matter which) gives to people, but it's just never happened for me. However, I do very much enjoy learning from other people's faith. Please share what you can!

Originally Posted by peace_gurl I thought this was a discussing about FOUR Murders in Farmville. Correct me if I am wrong.

Because we are bored, interesting people that have met in a serendipitious way! One never knows what the topic will be steered toward, day to day and it's great to have in depth conversations and debates with people that are open minded and knowlegeable and not afraid to ask 'stupid' questions!

Originally Posted by emeraldeyes85 Todays vocabulary assignment: Pseudepigrapha

:::raising hand and waving wildly::: "I know, I know!!!" Pick me!!


Quote:

A body of texts written between 200 B.C. and A.D. 200 and spuriously ascribed to various prophets and kings of Hebrew Scriptures. and certain writings (other than the canonical books and the Apocrypha) professing to be Biblical in character

Also, I wanted to add a book that I read and found very interesting, "The Lost Years of Jesus" by Prophet, Elizabeth. This book covers the years of 12-30 in the life of Jesus, not covered in the Christian Bible. It brings in some of the stories in the non-canonical texts.

I was responding originally to the comment you made that those of us that didn't believe in the same things as you were "lying". Then Wes asked if I thought God was lying in the Garden of Eden. My point in raising what the book you claim to believe in actually says is that it doesn't support your or Wes' argument. I can address the lying part later, but as far as Wes' comments God says man will die "on the day" they eat from the tree of life in the book. He also says that all men are "dust" and will return to "dust". If you don't believe me get a Hebrew-English dictionary and check it yourself.

Death is a fact of life in my view. Just as a string cut from a spool of thread always has two ends, a life always has a beginning AND an ending. If you consider any material object it always has a moment of creation and a moment of dissolution. Consider for example a drinking glass. Before it is made, it is a pile of sand. Once made it is useful for drinking. But after it is broken, it returns to "dust" and can't hold a drink at all. Your body is similar and it is going to die.

Buddhism posits reincarnation, a belief system which frankly after many years of research I see very little reason to believe in. I also don't accept the notion of a non-material heaven other than as a symbolic construction like a computer simulation.

I know a number of people that literally believe that human immortality is not only possible, but is our ultimate destiny. They call themselves "transhumanists" and they are interested in using science and technology to alter and augment the human body to achieve extreme longevity and maybe even immortality. So I don't reject entirely the notion that extremely long life spans or even near immortality is possible, but you know the beings that achieve this will hardly be human by our present standards. And science says that after enough time even the universe itself may die.

That is not dead which can eternal lie.
And with strange aeons even death may die.
--Abdul Alhazred

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaper/Mechanist_universe and also

Originally Posted by PinkLily12 I think we all do! On a different note, it seems as though several of you think that you have everything figured out already and that my opinion is not needed. I apologize for trying to disscuss it with you all in the first place. Thank you for the welecome Peace_gurl, but it seems as though others in this thread do not feel the same way, so I will not be continuing to post.

On the contrary, what I have got in fact is a long list of questions.

I think that if you stayed you would find that there are several people here who do agree with your point of view. We've mostly been able to continue our discussions and debates in a friendly manner despite that we don't all agree on various aspects of the case, religion, or a lot of other things. But don't expect that no one will comment on your posts here including those that disagree with you. That is sort of the point of the discussion ...

Also, the varying points of view are part of what makes the conversation interesting. I'd encourage you to stay for a bit and make your case.

Please don't leave,,Pink,,,I tried to post a few things several days ago and "everything" I said was misinterpreted (sp)..and missconstrued..I really felt like i had landed onto another planet....I have never experienced this on Ws....I will say this,,,I have tried to skip over the post that show the visuals of the horrorcore genre,,simple because I do not care to see the blood, gore and vile pictures,,,,but I must say for the most part "these posters" do occasionally touch on topics I find most interesting and I find myself researching and actually learning something....(thanks Pax)......I will not post much anymore because most of yall have made me feel much older than my 59 years,,and quite frankly obselete...ie::::shagging (DANCING) to the Mrytle Beach tunes....I wish you ,,,,Pink, to take what you can use and discard the rest like me and a few others are doing...We all belong here, if it is what we choose to do.....Also,, I missed your BD party yesterday Ziggy,,Happy belated Birthday.....,,I was baking Christmas cookies with a dear friend and her little girl,,,,all day,,,we finished up last night at 11;30 PM AND went to bed........Ziggy...I wish you only the best in law school and know this old lady is rooting in your corner......

Lets all take a deep breath and relax. Dangrs means no harm to anyone I can assure you that, I think some folks are reading too much in to his comments and without body langauage here on the net it may sometimes seems as if he is saying something other than what he really is. I for one VERY MUCH appreciate him taking his time to share all this info on topic or not, with us, it is all very interesting and as soon as more info comes out about the case I am sure thats EXACTLY what we will all be talking about. In the meantime lets all continue our friendly chat and not take things so personally, so far this has been a great thread with nobody allowing others to upset their vibe and start with personal attacks etc, lets keep it that way my friends!

DM please continue as I very much enjoy everything you have to share and that goes for the rest of you also, you all share something unique.

PINK you are welcome here and we welcome any disagreement you may have with any of our opinions or theories, we have all disagreed with eachother over things many times but the one thing we have done that I dont see in other threads and other forums is that we havent taken such disagreement personally or become offended by it so lets not start now.


I am also aware that myself and emerald may have offended some of the christians here with some of our comments about the bible and I do apologize for that, as a Buddhist I believe in TOLERANCE towards all belief systems but that doesnt mean I always agree with the dogma or doctrines or teachings of any particular religions and I dont see any problem with us discussing those issues like adults without getting offended and trying to prove your god is better than my god and vice versa, it is only discussion and so far it has been very friendly discussion AND I HOPE THAT WILL CONTINUE.

Percy~

Originally Posted by peace_gurl Where is gxm? Va Brown? Charlie chan? Farmvillian? Lot of the ppl from the thread before have not posted on this one.

Peace-gurl, people come and go from threads all the time. ESPECIALLY when there is no active progress or even new information in the case.

When motions in Sam's trial begin, you can bet that lots of people--prior posters like those you've named as well as brand new ones--will be coming in here to discuss the case with us.

Also, I was thinking of what the scenario would be if we were to take seriously that we might "lose" people. First, how can people guess what topics and tangents might make other people go away? And second, should the people who are posting say, well, I won't post then, and so the whole thread stops?--Why don't those who don't like what's being posted post something they do like and lead the conversation in that direction?

Just wanna jump in here and say I love this silly ole thread and the places it has been.
dgrmindss and pax have opened my eyes even further than I thought they could be.
I don't believe in numbers matching up to things, unless you want them to but,I may be wrong.

hey pinklily,I was not trying to make excuses for Sam,as always I was just tyrying to understand what makes someone snap...it's great to have someone here that actually knows Professor Kelly,I'd love to hear everything you know about her....as for you "jumping" into the thread and making assumptions,I did the same thing when i started I read the first two threads in like 15min. and jumped over a lot of things and just felt the need to defend SKR just like you do with Longwood...(remember guys,heroine used to tell me all the time :READ THE THREAD...and I was like I DID ,lol ,the old times)
...then I got addicted to this thing and you'll see it's really interesting to look into different possibilities...and if I ever offended any christians on the thread I apologize,but frankly christians seem to be offended simply by people not being christians....

Charlie Chan is still here. Lurking, learning & searching. Not that most of you need it but Charlie Chan says, "Mind is like parachute--Only function when open--LOL.

No problems here, but you have to realize a lot of us christians spend a good bit of time defending our beliefs (both to other denominations and non-christians) which makes us more prone to become defensive when comments are made. Some others are like you say, but those are easy to pick out (you've never had "fun" until you get into an argument with someone who can only quote Scripture passages).

Since we've been talking about different forms of music and song meanings, I've been reading a rather ridiculous thread on a Catholic forum I like to frequent. The subject: The somewhat traditional Christmas song "Mary did You Know?" and how it's heretical to Catholic beliefs and shouldn't be performed at a church function.

Here are the words:

"Mary Did You Know"

[Originally written by Mark Lowry and Buddy Greene]

Mary, did you know
that your Baby Boy would one day walk on water?
Mary, did you know
that your Baby Boy would save our sons and daughters?
Did you know
that your Baby Boy has come to make you new?
This Child that you delivered will soon deliver you.

Mary, did you know
that your Baby Boy will give sight to a blind man?
Mary, did you know
that your Baby Boy will calm the storm with His hand?
Did you know
that your Baby Boy has walked where angels trod?
When you kiss your little Baby you kissed the face of God?

Mary did you know.. Ooo Ooo Ooo

The blind will see.
The deaf will hear.
The dead will live again.
The lame will leap.
The dumb will speak
The praises of The Lamb.

Mary, did you know
that your Baby Boy is Lord of all creation?
Mary, did you know
that your Baby Boy would one day rule the nations?
Did you know
that your Baby Boy is heaven's perfect Lamb?
The sleeping Child you're holding is the Great, I Am.

I love this thread too. Nice to see everyone getting along and contributing more interesting stuff and Wes making me laugh out loud for saying he sent Sam an "M" (letter). Sorry, but that just struck my very juvenille funny bone. Thanks for the belated Bday wishes ScaryMary and Andres and others...it's late, contracts midterm is OVER and it went better than criminal...I don't believe it myself. Onto torts where all the crazy stuff happens.

January hearing may be only to set a trial date, but it may also prompt a document dump so that we get a little more information on what the state's evidence is and I know we are all waiting to hear something...anything.

It would be great to hear that last song of Sam's and perhaps get a clearer look inside his mind. It makes me wonder...what will it tell? How will his defense proceed? Does he know what he's up against and was it worth it?

I love hearing Farmville history and lore and dig all the other great contributions so I will continue to hang around here and converse with the best group on a board I've seen in a long time and learn, and ponder, and read and wait (and watch shag videos)...tick tock.

Originally Posted by Wes Just for clarity sake, are you just pointing out some interesting facts about Farmville....or do you actually think some "bad juju" in that area has something to do with Sam killing these four people?

I would say that for people who think a certain way, including some Christians, the latter is pretty much what bad juju is all about.

Well Christians certainly believe in juju, spirits, demonic possession etc, Buddhists do also to an extent with the whole karma and rebirth thing but I tend to not believe in reincarnation/rebirth as I have found no real scientific reason to and I think that is a syncretistic belief that Buddhists adopted from earlier religions and is largely a symbolic practice to those Buddhists who are in the know. But certainly if you are one to believe such things it wouldnt be a leap to assume Sam may have been possessed by some wayward spirit/demon being that the area's history of full of blood and mayhem and most especially the area of 505.

I would like to add that on some level I do believe in reincarnation and would explain it being like a lightbulb when you turn it on it APPEARS to stay on but in fact it is FLICKERING on and off, so fast that you are unaware of it and this is also true of all of us, we are constantly BECOMING, at the atomic and cellular level we are dying each second and becoming again since we are always in state of change and in this way with each passing MOMENT we are literally reincarnated and our behavior and actions in THIS MOMENT will certainly effect what we BECOME the next moment and in this way karma is very real. When one is Enlightened things slow down to the point you are actually able to see and discern things AS THEY REALLY ARE as opposed to what THEY APPEAR TO BE that is to say that you would actually see the LIGHTBULB and LIFE itself is in a constant state of FLICKERING ON AND OFF at the atomic and cellular level, life, death and rebirth with each passing moment.

I just want to say, that I enjoy this thread and read it everyday! I am a 54 year old Grandma with only a GED education, but I am also very open minded and my brain is comparable to a sponge. IMO, the regulars on this thread are very caring and understanding people.
I have followed this thread from the very beginning and since have questioned many of my own thoughts on life in general. I hope you all understand what I am trying to say!

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS I have really tried to keep my passion to a minimum here among you folks some of you havent seen me on other threads, its a jekyl hyde thing but I dont like these attacks on DM he is bringing up some very interesting discussion points about race and symbolism and what these secret societies represent and they DO REPRESENT THESE THINGS even if todays ignorant generation doesnt understand it. This is my life it is what I study and I wont have anyone coming in here telling us we are all a bunch of whackjobs because we dont get the inside joke of a bunch southern white college kids putting bags over their heads and parading around campus because its cool. That sort of thing has meaning and is still just as deeply hurtful to a black person as a swatzi is to me, a Jew. Spare me.

I've been reading some of the things you and DM recommended. I get some strange looks on the subway when people start trying to see what I'm reading.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS

Wished I had a paint brush so I could let you see my view point and not read it.

1. My daughters would not listen to horrorcore. It is not their style.
Their occasional teenage babysitter’s killed their parents with a gun. They hate violence.
They do not watch horror movies either!

2. They did not have time to sit and chat on line. At 15 they were consumed in getting a public school education, dance classes, & art classes.

3. Both of my daughters had a public job at 15. Both first jobs were at a European style coffee house.

4. A male stranger that I knew nothing about would not come to stay with us.

( Maybe my style of parenting is a little different than yours, after all I am a single mom.)

This is what I am trying to say:

1. I do not believe Dr. Kelly and Em were having any more difficulties than any typical teenager and parents have. Remember she was getting a divorce.
2. Dr. Kelly did not like the horror core music but did she believe the music scene would kill her? (my mom did not like my Ozzy either.)
3. Dr. Debra Kelly was in therapy with her daughter. I know from personal experience, divorce can make you depressed and highly affect your children. She was working through it with her daughter and husband.
4. I believe the drive to the festival was discussed with her therapist.
5. I Remember reading Sam stayed in one room at the hotel, her dad in another and the girls in another room when they attended the festival. I am sure they thought they were watching after them.
6. I do not know if Em lied to her mom about Sam, his age, what was going on in his life etc. But I believe Debra would try to help anyone. She was a good woman.
7. I live in a small town with lots of college kids (we have two colleges here) it is not unusual for the faculty to have kids in their homes.
8. Yes, it is a trusting town, because everyone knows everyone.
9 People are actually friendly and help each other. As DM said we should not. (When I visited California a few years back it bothered me how unfriendly the employees of stores were. Then I remembered hell, I am on the west coast.)
10. And guess what it is not just the “white people” that we trust. Contrary to what you think most people in our community do not see color. Sure there are racist here but there are racist in California too.

What I would like to know is more about the man accused of the crime. Where is the information about his family, his life, and what items were taken from his home? He is who we should examine.
__________________

Why did four people die? Here is what happened: Dr. Kelly and her husband had problems. It reflected onto their child, who then had problems. She was friends with other crazy people, one of which was a nutcase sent to use by the California’s (that’s Sam). The California kid killed all four people: two of which were good people, and should have your respect, not your crazy assumptions about the town they are from. One of those people who died was an innocent child. She didn’t even have a chance to mature. The other was just a friend coming to visit.

Emma and Mel deserve respect too and all her friends arent "crazy". Just bc u dont understand the subculture doesnt mean we are insane bc of it.